WEBVTT

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maintaining the discipline to be very focused

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about the problem that you're solving

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and who you're solving it for.

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And I think that solves 90% of the problems

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from a strategic perspective for any small business owner,

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including an agency.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to sell more stuff

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to more people in more ways

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and build businesses worth owning.

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I'm trying to build a billion dollar thing

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with acquisition.com.

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I always wished pesos, musk and buffet

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had documented their journey.

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So I'm doing it for the rest of us.

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Please share and enjoy.

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Why audience ask me questions for 10 hours

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and here are the best moments.

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Let's say my only goal was just to get rich AF.

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What is rich AF just so we define it?

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100 million.

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One, it's a good number.

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Cool.

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You're willing to work hard

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but you have limited skills and experience.

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What business would you start

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like right now in 2023?

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And I have no money, right?

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I would probably build a boring business in services

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and I would probably pick something around the body.

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I wouldn't just start a design firm

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because I think that has a high likelihood of getting disrupted

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or in some way by AI.

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As silly as it sounds like a nail salon

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or a lawn care service,

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especially body ones,

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dentists stuff.

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You still have to go in and get your teeth taken care of.

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And many times people value the human exchange

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more than something robotics.

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For example, in the fitness world,

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like this is my data point around this,

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there was a brand called CocoFit.

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And they struggled a ton

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and then eventually went out of business

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because they tried to automate personal training.

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So they created these all-in-one machines

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that you'd have a key fob and it would count your reps

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and every time you went to the machine you would say

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how to do more and what weight you did last time.

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It's a really cool concept.

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The problem was their theory was that the reason

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that people were getting results is that they didn't know what to do

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when the reality is that no one was shung with the gym.

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People hire personal trainers

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because they want another human to talk to

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and to hold them accountable to showing up.

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Same reason like if you had a robot cutting hair,

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there might be a percentage of the population to do it,

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but a lot of women like the going to the hair salon

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and having that exchange.

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And so I would probably build a business around services

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in general would be my way

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and then I would continue to scale that.

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And you could do that at a local chain level

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and you can make a lot of money do that.

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Or you could do it at a national level

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which would be like professional services.

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I love the idea behind the core stuff

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that's going to be here forever.

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Burn everything to the ground.

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You lost everything, you had to start again.

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What would you say is the number one thing

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that you would have done differently

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to get to where you are now?

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And I have no reputation, right?

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No reputation.

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It burns my reputation on the ground with it.

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So I actually have lost everything before.

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And so I know what I did

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and I probably would have done the same thing.

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So the easiest way that I did to go make a hundred grand

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in a month when I had nothing

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was that I would go find a business

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that was local that I understood

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and that I could sell something expensive for.

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I would front the capital to market.

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I would work the leads and I would sit at the front desk

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and sell and I would negotiate

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what they would be willing to do

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a big bulk of services at scale for.

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So for example, if I wanted to find a car tractor

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and I'd say, hey, if I sent you a hundred customers this month,

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what's the lowest rate you would do

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all hundred customers for this level of service?

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And then I would just negotiate that down

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and then I would spend as much as I could

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and sell it for as much as I can

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so I can make the spread.

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And then they would service the customers.

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And for them, it's a zero risk offer

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because they don't have to do anything.

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I front everything else.

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And then for me, I don't have to do anything but market and sell

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and I can take all of that.

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And so like when I lost everything,

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I immediately was able to make a hundred grand the next month

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by doing that playbook.

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In your opinion, what are the three most powerful skills

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that someone should develop

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I mean, the three core skills, are you going to learn how to build?

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You got to learn how to sell and you got to learn how to lead.

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Just like that. There we go.

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In terms of maybe like hard skills

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that someone should really focus on learning to develop that

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like sales, copywriting, leadership,

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what would you say the most important?

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Well, those are the three big buckets.

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So it's like one is that

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leadership is just the internal bucket of getting people

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to do what you want them to do at scale.

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And then from a selling perspective,

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I include that in all things that are

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marketing, letting people know about your stuff,

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your promotion, and actually converting people into customers.

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And then the third piece of building product and services

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is so that at scale,

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if the product is good enough,

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then you won't lose customers.

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And if it's exceptional, the product itself

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will get you more customers.

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And so most businesses taking to their natural extreme

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on a promotional level typically are leaky buckets

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because the product actually sucks.

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And most businesses suck in general

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because most products aren't good

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and most people want to cancel very quickly

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which is why very, very good companies are very rare.

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Most of them generally are mediocre or not good.

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And so I prefer to solve a business from back to front

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which is like can we find something that people actually like

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and want to continue to use

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and continue to pay for.

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And then the marketing is almost a commoditized skill.

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Like it's very easy to let other people know about your stuff

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and do so louder and louder and louder

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provided the product is good.

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And then the internal has to get run with a leader

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that can attract the talent to continue to do this.

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Because quickly the business will bottleneck based on the founder

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and their expertise or usually they have a niche

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they might be product people, they might be tech people,

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they might be finance people, they might be whatever.

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And then they have to be of the character to attract

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the talent that will allow them to get to, you know,

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nine figures or whatever it is that they're at the goal is.

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You mentioned on a recent podcast with Tom Billy

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that you don't have rules.

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So I, for example, you know, I quite often end up working up

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until midnight 2 a.m. 3 a.m.

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and basically fucking up my sleep schedule

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because I have too much freedom, right?

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Because I'm self employed.

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So how do you kind of strike that balance between freedom

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and discipline, you know, if you're driven

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and you want to accomplish big things?

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It's, it's, it's kind of 80 20.

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Like if you know that when you stay up late, like there are times

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when I will gas it and go past my red line in terms of work

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and I know that I'm eating into tomorrow.

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But if I'm like in a flow and I'm crushing it

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and the muse shows up and the muse wants to work,

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then I work.

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You know what I mean?

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But if there's some days on the flip side where I wake up

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and I just feel foggy as shit and I just like for whatever reason,

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I ate too much maxing last night and my, you know,

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I just, I don't have it that day.

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Then I might call it earlier.

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Like the idea of me pushing through and punishing

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when it comes to the type of work I do.

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If I were doing a more brute force work, then I would care less.

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You know what I mean?

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If it was just like, if I was just doing reach outs,

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I was doing cold calls, I was training,

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personal training sessions, I was cutting hair.

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I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna brute force my way through it

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because I don't need to have higher brain function.

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And that's not an insult.

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I'm just saying like, you're not like thinking of creative things.

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You don't mean you're just, you're working to work.

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But when it comes to like writing or making presentations

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or communication of some sort,

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it's more I try and optimize around how can I maximize

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over a week how much flow state I can be in

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so I can just get the most total quality output.

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So it's not about rules.

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It's more like which of these things has a highest likelihood

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of getting me the most?

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What's up, Kristoff?

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In one podcast, you said that your most feared decision in life

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was to quit your job when you were trying to work 23.

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My question is, what advice will you give to your younger self

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if you could in that exact situation?

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When you have nothing to lose,

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it also makes it the best time to make high-risk decisions

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because you have a disproportionate upside.

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Not quitting if you want to do something else,

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like if you have this desire to do something else,

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is like not taking a stranger up on a free lottery ticket

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on the street.

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If they give you a free lottery ticket and you lose,

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you're back to not having anything.

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If you win, then your life changes forever.

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And so I think a lot of people place a disproportionate amount

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of weight on the opinions of other people

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who are going to judge them in the short term

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because quitting your job is short-term pain

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for long-term fulfillment.

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If that's what you want to pursue,

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because the short-term pain comes from the judgment of others

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and likely a back step in income,

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but long-term you're working on a thing

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that you want to be working on.

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Now, if you like your job,

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and that probably doesn't apply to those people,

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but if you're in that situation,

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it's really a long-term short-term sacrifice

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which a lot of people aren't able to make.

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The second question,

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let's think that my audience don't know anything about Leila,

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except that she's your partner.

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But I think she has exceptional knowledge

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and she's a really good personality.

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If you could only tell one story about her

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that makes a complete picture about her,

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what would it be?

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So Leila had quit her job to join me to start gym launch.

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This is when we were doing turn-around,

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so we're flying around the country.

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So she quit her job after knowing me for only a month

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and then started basically living with me in motel rooms.

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She had built up a book of business,

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so she was actually giving up something

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that she had spent two years building

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to pursue this thing with me.

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And we were new, like we had just started dating.

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About six months into that,

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I told her that I needed a break.

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And she actually asked me if she was like,

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it sounds like you don't really want me to be here

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or do you want me to leave.

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And I was like, yes, that would be great.

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I had just lost all the money from the partner.

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I had this location that I had to either shut, shut down

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and had no cash to do it.

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And I had to service all these contracts

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that didn't have the money to service.

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And I also had like three other businesses

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that I was trying to run at the same time

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at a car practice agency.

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I had my gyms.

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I had gym launched the turnaround business.

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00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:23.280
I had a dental agency.

264
00:09:23.280 --> 00:09:24.280
All of those with different partners.

265
00:09:24.280 --> 00:09:26.280
And I was the one who did marketing sales for all of it.

266
00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:29.280
And so I was just so spread thin.

267
00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:31.280
And so she, I needed to generate money

268
00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:34.280
to basically pay the bills of the gym

269
00:09:34.280 --> 00:09:35.280
that I couldn't pay,

270
00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:36.280
that the money had just gone out the door for.

271
00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:38.280
Right after me saying, I don't think we should be together.

272
00:09:38.280 --> 00:09:42.280
She had to leave like the next day to go to Hawaii

273
00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:44.280
to launch a gym for this guy

274
00:09:44.280 --> 00:09:45.280
that she's no longer dating,

275
00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:47.280
that she quit everything to leave.

276
00:09:47.280 --> 00:09:49.280
Tough situation that nine out of,

277
00:09:49.280 --> 00:09:50.280
not even nine.

278
00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:51.280
99 out of 100 girls would have just said no.

279
00:09:51.280 --> 00:09:52.280
They would have been like,

280
00:09:52.280 --> 00:09:53.280
I'm just going to go back home

281
00:09:53.280 --> 00:09:55.280
and, you know, try and get all my clients back.

282
00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:56.280
But she didn't do that.

283
00:09:56.280 --> 00:09:57.280
So she flew out to Hawaii.

284
00:09:57.280 --> 00:09:59.280
I didn't have enough money to give her like a nice place.

285
00:09:59.280 --> 00:10:03.280
And so I had her split in Airbnb with five guys.

286
00:10:03.280 --> 00:10:04.280
Five dudes in Laila.

287
00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:05.280
Not ideal.

288
00:10:05.280 --> 00:10:07.280
And so she worked out of the Airbnb.

289
00:10:07.280 --> 00:10:08.280
And well, realistic.

290
00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:10.280
She worked out of the gym most of the time.

291
00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:12.280
And did the biggest launch that we'd ever done.

292
00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:14.280
And so like when my world was crumbling around me

293
00:10:14.280 --> 00:10:16.280
and I really needed her to come through,

294
00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:17.280
she stood tall.

295
00:10:17.280 --> 00:10:19.280
And she did it in a time that I probably

296
00:10:19.280 --> 00:10:21.280
didn't deserve that level of loyalty

297
00:10:21.280 --> 00:10:22.280
because I hadn't shown her any.

298
00:10:22.280 --> 00:10:24.280
And so she did that.

299
00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:27.280
And then I made enough money from her launching that gym

300
00:10:27.280 --> 00:10:29.280
that I could pay off all the bills of the gym

301
00:10:29.280 --> 00:10:32.280
that was going under that I just lost all the money on

302
00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:34.280
to basically come out breaking even

303
00:10:34.280 --> 00:10:37.280
so that we could actually go back all in on gym launch

304
00:10:37.280 --> 00:10:39.280
and get rid of the other companies.

305
00:10:39.280 --> 00:10:40.280
Oh, man.

306
00:10:40.280 --> 00:10:42.280
I think I haven't heard this story before.

307
00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:45.280
What's went through your mind?

308
00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:49.280
I can't really believe this and understand it.

309
00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:51.280
Well, when she did that, I wanted to be with her.

310
00:10:51.280 --> 00:10:55.280
She had extended me loyalty that I had not given her.

311
00:10:55.280 --> 00:10:58.280
There was probably a few defining moments in our relationship.

312
00:10:58.280 --> 00:10:59.280
That was the first big one.

313
00:10:59.280 --> 00:11:01.280
Thank you very much for sharing this.

314
00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:03.280
The next one is kind of basic question,

315
00:11:03.280 --> 00:11:04.280
but I'm really curious about the answer.

316
00:11:04.280 --> 00:11:08.280
What was your biggest takeaway of writing 100 million offers

317
00:11:08.280 --> 00:11:09.280
and also 100 million leads?

318
00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:12.280
The offer is just a strategic question

319
00:11:12.280 --> 00:11:14.280
that influences all aspects of the business

320
00:11:14.280 --> 00:11:16.280
and is also a mental exercise that people can feel

321
00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:19.280
like they're making progress on their offer a lot faster.

322
00:11:19.280 --> 00:11:22.280
Leads is a lot more about activity and implementation

323
00:11:22.280 --> 00:11:25.280
and so people can get ideas from the lead magnet chapter

324
00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:27.280
but then you have to start reaching out to people,

325
00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:31.280
posting content or running ads to start getting leads in the door.

326
00:11:31.280 --> 00:11:33.280
And so there's a little bit bigger of a hurdle

327
00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:35.280
with leads than there is offers

328
00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:37.280
but it's also the main driver of business

329
00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:39.280
is letting people know about your stuff.

330
00:11:39.280 --> 00:11:42.280
And so I think that many people will mentally masturbate

331
00:11:42.280 --> 00:11:44.280
to the idea of making these amazing offers

332
00:11:44.280 --> 00:11:46.280
but I think farmers will make money

333
00:11:46.280 --> 00:11:49.280
by actually letting people know about their stuff, which is leads.

334
00:11:49.280 --> 00:11:54.280
What went through your mind when you rewrote it for the 18th or 19th time?

335
00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:56.280
So unless I can work once

336
00:11:56.280 --> 00:11:59.280
and have something provide value on an ongoing basis

337
00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:02.280
which is a high leverage activity, then it makes no sense.

338
00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:04.280
I think most people shouldn't write books

339
00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:06.280
because the amount of work it takes to make a great book

340
00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:10.280
that actually lasts this after time is extremely difficult.

341
00:12:10.280 --> 00:12:13.280
I think I read a blog post where they said

342
00:12:13.280 --> 00:12:15.280
how to write a blogbuster blog post

343
00:12:15.280 --> 00:12:17.280
and there was a chart where they said

344
00:12:17.280 --> 00:12:21.280
if you put in like a hundred hours to write only one blog post

345
00:12:21.280 --> 00:12:23.280
there maybe will be a million views

346
00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:25.280
but if you put like 50 hours

347
00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:27.280
there maybe will be just 10,000 views.

348
00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:28.280
It's exactly that.

349
00:12:28.280 --> 00:12:31.280
There's diminishing marginal return

350
00:12:31.280 --> 00:12:34.280
but an increase in exponential increase in absolute returns.

351
00:12:35.280 --> 00:12:40.280
The gold medal sprinter in the Olympics versus the silver medalist.

352
00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:43.280
From a business context, the person who's at the gold medalist

353
00:12:43.280 --> 00:12:48.280
might have worked 10 times more to get this much more out

354
00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:51.280
but what's the difference in absolute of gold versus silver?

355
00:12:51.280 --> 00:12:52.280
Everything.

356
00:12:52.280 --> 00:12:54.280
Just being this much better people are like, well, I don't want to work

357
00:12:54.280 --> 00:12:56.280
50 more hours to be this much better

358
00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:59.280
but being this much better might make you the best at that

359
00:12:59.280 --> 00:13:02.280
whatever the blog post is or that business or that solution

360
00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:06.280
and the amount of winner takes all the economy has shifted towards

361
00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:08.280
people want the lowest risk solution

362
00:13:08.280 --> 00:13:11.280
and so if you have the best solution

363
00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:13.280
then it is the lowest risk thing to buy

364
00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:16.280
and so to be number one versus number two

365
00:13:16.280 --> 00:13:19.280
80% of the economics, sometimes 90% of the economics go to number one

366
00:13:19.280 --> 00:13:23.280
and so it makes absolute sense to work 10 times harder

367
00:13:23.280 --> 00:13:25.280
even though you might only be this much better

368
00:13:25.280 --> 00:13:28.280
from a marginal perspective on the chart of rankings

369
00:13:28.280 --> 00:13:31.280
that might make you 10 times higher.

370
00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:34.280
Some context, we have like a book summary application

371
00:13:34.280 --> 00:13:38.280
where we give also exercises and tips to implement the book.

372
00:13:38.280 --> 00:13:43.280
What's your average take on books and I mean book summaries?

373
00:13:43.280 --> 00:13:45.280
Is it good? Did he use them before?

374
00:13:45.280 --> 00:13:47.280
I don't read many book summaries.

375
00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:50.280
Mostly because you rely on the person who's doing the summarizing

376
00:13:50.280 --> 00:13:53.280
to find what they think is the most viable thing for you, right?

377
00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:55.280
Because a lot of times what I find if I read a book,

378
00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:57.280
the nuggets that I find are not the main concepts.

379
00:13:57.280 --> 00:13:58.280
It's actually the details.

380
00:13:58.280 --> 00:14:00.280
If you don't know anything about a topic

381
00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:02.280
then the summaries are great to give you a lot of sort of framework

382
00:14:02.280 --> 00:14:04.280
to understand the rest of the information that you can consume.

383
00:14:04.280 --> 00:14:07.280
But once you have a basic understanding, it's in the edges

384
00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:09.280
which is where you can expand your knowledge, right?

385
00:14:09.280 --> 00:14:11.280
And so there's not a lot of shortcuts

386
00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:12.280
to getting really good at something.

387
00:14:12.280 --> 00:14:16.280
Now a bit of selfish question, but I'm really curious about the thing.

388
00:14:16.280 --> 00:14:17.280
Yeah, yeah.

389
00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:20.280
Okay, so you remember you had a video where you scaled

390
00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:23.280
a no-strip business to 50 million in six minutes.

391
00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:25.280
Could you do this with the book summary app?

392
00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:26.280
Basically do a breakdown of a book.

393
00:14:26.280 --> 00:14:27.280
So it's an application?

394
00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:29.280
Yeah, it's a subscription based application.

395
00:14:29.280 --> 00:14:30.280
Yeah, got it.

396
00:14:30.280 --> 00:14:31.280
What's the price point?

397
00:14:31.280 --> 00:14:32.280
Ten dollars.

398
00:14:32.280 --> 00:14:33.280
Okay.

399
00:14:33.280 --> 00:14:34.280
What's turn?

400
00:14:34.280 --> 00:14:35.280
I think 15 to 20 percent.

401
00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:36.280
Monthly or yearly?

402
00:14:36.280 --> 00:14:37.280
Monthly.

403
00:14:37.280 --> 00:14:38.280
Monthly.

404
00:14:38.280 --> 00:14:39.280
Got it.

405
00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:41.280
So you have to fix that first.

406
00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:43.280
At the end of the day, everything's going to be CACTA-LTV.

407
00:14:43.280 --> 00:14:45.280
So like if there was one single metric

408
00:14:45.280 --> 00:14:46.280
that I'm going to look at a business,

409
00:14:46.280 --> 00:14:47.280
it's CACTA-LTV ratio.

410
00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:49.280
So how much does it cost to me to get somebody

411
00:14:49.280 --> 00:14:50.280
and how much do I make from them over the lifetime?

412
00:14:50.280 --> 00:14:54.280
Until that metric is better than the competition.

413
00:14:54.280 --> 00:14:56.280
So like Blinkist, right?

414
00:14:56.280 --> 00:14:58.280
I think that's a one that's like that.

415
00:14:58.280 --> 00:14:59.280
I would have to look at their LTV.

416
00:14:59.280 --> 00:15:01.280
And what are the things that they're doing that?

417
00:15:01.280 --> 00:15:02.280
Like why am I?

418
00:15:02.280 --> 00:15:04.280
Why are going to people going to come to me versus that?

419
00:15:04.280 --> 00:15:05.280
Right?

420
00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:07.280
So either I have to be more niche in my selection of books

421
00:15:07.280 --> 00:15:10.280
so that I'll have a wider selection for a narrower audience.

422
00:15:10.280 --> 00:15:12.280
Like competing against Amazon is very tough.

423
00:15:12.280 --> 00:15:15.280
But if you niche down into a specific topic,

424
00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:17.280
then you can actually have a wider selection

425
00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:20.280
because Blinkist is just going to take the best sellers, right?

426
00:15:20.280 --> 00:15:21.280
For every category.

427
00:15:21.280 --> 00:15:23.280
Because that's going to be the most people.

428
00:15:23.280 --> 00:15:24.280
And they're VC-backed and they're funded

429
00:15:24.280 --> 00:15:25.280
and they can acquire customers that are lost

430
00:15:25.280 --> 00:15:27.280
for a long period of time, acquire market share.

431
00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:29.280
And unless that's the game you're trying to play,

432
00:15:29.280 --> 00:15:30.280
then you have to play it different.

433
00:15:30.280 --> 00:15:32.280
Which is I want to be really specific

434
00:15:32.280 --> 00:15:34.280
about the avatar that I want to go after.

435
00:15:34.280 --> 00:15:36.280
And so that's where you do a little bit of research ahead of time

436
00:15:36.280 --> 00:15:38.280
and say, OK, is there an underserved market

437
00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:41.280
that might actually have a big reading preference?

438
00:15:41.280 --> 00:15:44.280
So like salespeople is one of the most common professions on planet Earth.

439
00:15:44.280 --> 00:15:45.280
From a personality perspective,

440
00:15:45.280 --> 00:15:47.280
how many salesguys read all the time?

441
00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:48.280
I don't know.

442
00:15:48.280 --> 00:15:49.280
I would have to look into that.

443
00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:50.280
And so you might be like, OK, well,

444
00:15:50.280 --> 00:15:51.280
salesguys aren't the guy,

445
00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:53.280
but maybe HR specialists read a ton.

446
00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:55.280
OK, well, if they read a ton,

447
00:15:55.280 --> 00:15:56.280
and there's like blankets,

448
00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:57.280
might have one book on HR.

449
00:15:57.280 --> 00:16:00.280
But I can put 100 different things that are related to that

450
00:16:00.280 --> 00:16:01.280
or one degree separated.

451
00:16:01.280 --> 00:16:05.280
And then I can create the illusion of a wider selection of topics,

452
00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:08.280
but around a narrower, narrower avatar or concept.

453
00:16:08.280 --> 00:16:09.280
Right?

454
00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:10.280
I would start there and then over time,

455
00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:12.280
you can expand if you want to and just reach,

456
00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:13.280
you know, you go adjacent,

457
00:16:13.280 --> 00:16:15.280
you go to finance, or you go to whatever.

458
00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:16.280
Like, this is me just spitballing again,

459
00:16:16.280 --> 00:16:18.280
like I did the underserved thing.

460
00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:20.280
From the economics perspective,

461
00:16:20.280 --> 00:16:22.280
you have to get LTV to the point where,

462
00:16:22.280 --> 00:16:26.280
like your churn should be under 3% in order to make this really work.

463
00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:29.280
Once it's under 3%, monthly, yeah.

464
00:16:29.280 --> 00:16:30.280
Monthly.

465
00:16:30.280 --> 00:16:33.280
I mean, ideally you want to maintain 80% annually, at least.

466
00:16:33.280 --> 00:16:35.280
If you want this thing to be a big thing,

467
00:16:35.280 --> 00:16:37.280
all of my attention would be only focused on that.

468
00:16:37.280 --> 00:16:38.280
Like until you fix that,

469
00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:40.280
there's no point in acquiring customers,

470
00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:41.280
because there's going to fall out the back end.

471
00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:42.280
Like there's literally no point.

472
00:16:42.280 --> 00:16:44.280
Because then you're also getting lots of people in

473
00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:46.280
that will then say that that thing sucks.

474
00:16:46.280 --> 00:16:47.280
You know what I mean?

475
00:16:47.280 --> 00:16:48.280
Am I saying it sucks?

476
00:16:48.280 --> 00:16:50.280
But I'm just saying like a friend of theirs is going to say,

477
00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:52.280
hey, I signed up for this thing and they're going to be like,

478
00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:53.280
oh, I tried, I didn't like it.

479
00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:55.280
And then they're like, oh, okay, maybe I won't stick on it.

480
00:16:55.280 --> 00:16:57.280
I want to be so quiet about what I'm building

481
00:16:57.280 --> 00:16:59.280
until all my metrics are right.

482
00:16:59.280 --> 00:17:01.280
And then I want to blow the doors off.

483
00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:03.280
But most people want to keep hitting these income goals

484
00:17:03.280 --> 00:17:05.280
rather than looking at the metrics of the business

485
00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:07.280
that are actually going to drive the long-term goal.

486
00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:09.280
Because like anyone can market their way

487
00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:11.280
to 100,000 or a million a month,

488
00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:12.280
even with an app like this.

489
00:17:12.280 --> 00:17:13.280
If you blow enough money,

490
00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:14.280
enough people find out about you can do it,

491
00:17:14.280 --> 00:17:16.280
but then you can only maintain it

492
00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:18.280
as long as you're spending that much money.

493
00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:20.280
You're spending drops, your income drops.

494
00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:22.280
And that's not a business that I want to be a part of.

495
00:17:22.280 --> 00:17:26.280
Our USB is that we are doing, we are in Hungary

496
00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:28.280
and we are doing it in Hungarian.

497
00:17:28.280 --> 00:17:30.280
And there is no other application in Hungary.

498
00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:31.280
Okay, that's great.

499
00:17:31.280 --> 00:17:33.280
If we scale to maybe Poland,

500
00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:35.280
we would do it in Polish and not in English.

501
00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:36.280
And that's a USB.

502
00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:37.280
I like that.

503
00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:39.280
And I mean, then at that point,

504
00:17:39.280 --> 00:17:40.280
I would just look at,

505
00:17:40.280 --> 00:17:42.280
I tried and model as closely as I possibly can,

506
00:17:42.280 --> 00:17:45.280
the number one player in the US

507
00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:46.280
from a UX perspective,

508
00:17:46.280 --> 00:17:48.280
from the selection of titles,

509
00:17:48.280 --> 00:17:49.280
all that kind of stuff.

510
00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:50.280
And then I would,

511
00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:51.280
and I would see if my metrics change,

512
00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:52.280
if I do that.

513
00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:53.280
If not, then it's like there's some assumption

514
00:17:53.280 --> 00:17:54.280
that I'm basing this business off of.

515
00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:55.280
That's not right.

516
00:17:55.280 --> 00:17:56.280
In the dining room around the both guests,

517
00:17:56.280 --> 00:17:58.280
I think, you told about skills

518
00:17:58.280 --> 00:17:59.280
versus meta skills.

519
00:17:59.280 --> 00:18:01.280
Could you expand this maybe?

520
00:18:01.280 --> 00:18:04.280
A meta skill is a skill that helps you acquire more skills.

521
00:18:04.280 --> 00:18:05.280
Learning how to read is a meta skill.

522
00:18:05.280 --> 00:18:07.280
Like learning how to learn is a meta skill.

523
00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:09.280
With the broadest brushstroke,

524
00:18:09.280 --> 00:18:10.280
all the way chunked up,

525
00:18:10.280 --> 00:18:13.280
learning to learn well quickly

526
00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:15.280
and retain information,

527
00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:16.280
and being able to implement it,

528
00:18:16.280 --> 00:18:18.280
is a skill.

529
00:18:18.280 --> 00:18:19.280
You give 100 people a course,

530
00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:20.280
that's free.

531
00:18:20.280 --> 00:18:21.280
The difference between the people

532
00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:22.280
who are going to be successful

533
00:18:22.280 --> 00:18:23.280
and not successful,

534
00:18:23.280 --> 00:18:24.280
are the ones who already have sufficient meta skills

535
00:18:24.280 --> 00:18:26.280
to be able to then use the information

536
00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:27.280
and implement it.

537
00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:29.280
Like at one polar extreme,

538
00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:31.280
you've got somebody who's completely incompetent,

539
00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:33.280
who you have to teach them how to turn on a computer.

540
00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:34.280
And on the other extreme,

541
00:18:34.280 --> 00:18:35.280
I can say,

542
00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:36.280
go build me a company,

543
00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:37.280
and the person can do it.

544
00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:39.280
So this person can translate a directive

545
00:18:39.280 --> 00:18:41.280
into each of the sub buckets

546
00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:42.280
and knows how to do that.

547
00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:43.280
And so it's really like,

548
00:18:43.280 --> 00:18:44.280
your success percentage,

549
00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:46.280
basically, is predetermined

550
00:18:46.280 --> 00:18:48.280
by how low you break down

551
00:18:48.280 --> 00:18:49.280
the skill requirements

552
00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:50.280
for someone to be successful.

553
00:18:50.280 --> 00:18:52.280
So like the reason that I write the books

554
00:18:52.280 --> 00:18:54.280
at the grade level that I do,

555
00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:57.280
isn't so that people who are experts

556
00:18:57.280 --> 00:18:58.280
don't give value from it.

557
00:18:58.280 --> 00:19:01.280
It's so that it makes it even easier for experts

558
00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:02.280
and it makes it attainable

559
00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:03.280
for people who don't know.

560
00:19:03.280 --> 00:19:05.280
So I can get 70% of people

561
00:19:05.280 --> 00:19:07.280
who read the book to get leads

562
00:19:07.280 --> 00:19:10.280
versus 10% of people to get leads

563
00:19:10.280 --> 00:19:12.280
if I just cut out some of the steps

564
00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:14.280
and made assumptions about their skill level.

565
00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:15.280
The last 10% or 20%,

566
00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:16.280
the people who are experts

567
00:19:16.280 --> 00:19:17.280
are still going to benefit from.

568
00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:19.280
I'm just also going to include

569
00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:20.280
turn on your computer.

570
00:19:20.280 --> 00:19:21.280
Here's how you do that.

571
00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:22.280
And from the software perspective

572
00:19:22.280 --> 00:19:23.280
with what you're doing,

573
00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:25.280
that's also how you get a way

574
00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:27.280
larger percentage of your clients to activate.

575
00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:28.280
Typically, we make assumptions

576
00:19:28.280 --> 00:19:29.280
because we assume

577
00:19:29.280 --> 00:19:30.280
that every customer is just like us.

578
00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:31.280
And so they have the same meta skills

579
00:19:31.280 --> 00:19:33.280
as us and they have the same interpretation

580
00:19:33.280 --> 00:19:35.280
or perception of the world and the UX.

581
00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:37.280
And so that assumption isn't true.

582
00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:38.280
Like all you have to do is,

583
00:19:38.280 --> 00:19:39.280
and I'm sure you've done this,

584
00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.280
like you look at people scrolling on your app

585
00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:42.280
and you see the heat maps and you're like,

586
00:19:42.280 --> 00:19:43.280
why are they clicking that button?

587
00:19:43.280 --> 00:19:45.280
Because they have different skills

588
00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:47.280
and experiences that they're bringing to the table.

589
00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:48.280
And so then we just continue to accommodate it,

590
00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:49.280
break it down to the level

591
00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:51.280
that you could show it to a three-year-old

592
00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:52.280
and they would immediately know how to use it.

593
00:19:52.280 --> 00:19:55.280
Like the fact that babies learn how to use iPods

594
00:19:55.280 --> 00:19:59.280
is an indication of how simple they have made it

595
00:19:59.280 --> 00:20:01.280
to humans to use.

596
00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:03.280
And that's why they have such mass adoption.

597
00:20:03.280 --> 00:20:04.280
How will you teach someone?

598
00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:05.280
How to learn.

599
00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:07.280
We already know how to learn.

600
00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:09.280
It's just that most people don't know how to teach.

601
00:20:09.280 --> 00:20:11.280
Everybody learns stuff all the time, right?

602
00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:14.280
If you touch a stove and it's hot and it burns you,

603
00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:16.280
you learn not to do it again.

604
00:20:16.280 --> 00:20:18.280
Like learning is natural.

605
00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:19.280
Like we all learn.

606
00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.280
But people who want to teach a specific behavior

607
00:20:21.280 --> 00:20:22.280
don't know how to do it.

608
00:20:22.280 --> 00:20:25.280
And so it really just comes down to three things,

609
00:20:25.280 --> 00:20:26.280
which is, what do I reward?

610
00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:27.280
What do I punish?

611
00:20:27.280 --> 00:20:28.280
And what do I extinguish?

612
00:20:28.280 --> 00:20:30.280
Right? So reward is you give a carrot right after someone does something.

613
00:20:30.280 --> 00:20:32.280
Punishes you, you know, you zap them

614
00:20:32.280 --> 00:20:34.280
or you smack them after they do something.

615
00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:36.280
Or extinguishes you do nothing.

616
00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:39.280
And so if your wife walks in and she got her nails painted

617
00:20:39.280 --> 00:20:41.280
neon orange and you don't like it,

618
00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:42.280
you might not want to punish her,

619
00:20:42.280 --> 00:20:44.280
because that's probably going to have negative ramifications

620
00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:45.280
in the rest of your life.

621
00:20:45.280 --> 00:20:46.280
But you might extinguish it.

622
00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:48.280
So you might not say anything about the nails.

623
00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:49.280
Or you might say something different.

624
00:20:49.280 --> 00:20:50.280
She's like, do you like my nails?

625
00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:51.280
I might save something back.

626
00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:53.280
Like I'm happy that you got what you want.

627
00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:55.280
What we're doing is what behavior are we training?

628
00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:58.280
And so if you think about learning or teaching as training,

629
00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:01.280
I think it's a much more useful word to think through.

630
00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:03.280
Because at the end of the day,

631
00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:06.280
you have only taught someone if their behavior changes

632
00:21:06.280 --> 00:21:07.280
in the same context.

633
00:21:07.280 --> 00:21:11.280
As in, if I want you to say these words when the phone rings,

634
00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:12.280
and if I say cool,

635
00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:13.280
we're going to put you through this training,

636
00:21:13.280 --> 00:21:14.280
and then the phone rings,

637
00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:15.280
and then you don't say the words,

638
00:21:15.280 --> 00:21:16.280
you have not learned.

639
00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:17.280
And I have not taught you.

640
00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:23.280
And so it's how many times can I simulate this experience,

641
00:21:23.280 --> 00:21:25.280
this stimulus, the context,

642
00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:28.280
so that I can have them do the behavior

643
00:21:28.280 --> 00:21:30.280
I want within the context that's going to trigger it

644
00:21:30.280 --> 00:21:32.280
and then reward them immediately.

645
00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:34.280
And that's how you have a feedback loop that trains people

646
00:21:34.280 --> 00:21:35.280
to do something.

647
00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:37.280
So that is why this tricks in the application

648
00:21:37.280 --> 00:21:39.280
and the gamification and those stuff.

649
00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:42.280
How would you restructure the education system if you could?

650
00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:45.280
Oh, yeah, sorry for this question.

651
00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:46.280
No, you're good.

652
00:21:46.280 --> 00:21:47.280
You're good.

653
00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:48.280
I would focus almost exclusively on metascales.

654
00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:50.280
Teaching people how to learn, step one,

655
00:21:50.280 --> 00:21:53.280
and then teaching people the things that are the next level underneath,

656
00:21:53.280 --> 00:21:55.280
which is learning how to write,

657
00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:57.280
learning how to read, learning how to speak,

658
00:21:57.280 --> 00:21:58.280
learning how to do math.

659
00:21:58.280 --> 00:22:01.280
Like those are the building blocks of everything else that follows.

660
00:22:01.280 --> 00:22:05.280
And in the school of the school of Alex or the school of Formosi,

661
00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:07.280
everyone passes only when you learn.

662
00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:11.280
There are only 100% and you continue to do it until you learn.

663
00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:15.280
Like the arbitrary division of braids along age is ridiculous to me.

664
00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:18.280
And I think that if there were a lot more clarity around the goal,

665
00:22:18.280 --> 00:22:23.280
which is like until you can read 10 pages out loud without making a mistake,

666
00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:24.280
you do not move on.

667
00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:26.280
If you can do that in a day, fantastic.

668
00:22:26.280 --> 00:22:29.280
If it takes you a year, okay, I don't judge you on that.

669
00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:32.280
It's just how long will it take you to learn the skill?

670
00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:36.280
So a good buddy of mine, Dr. Cashy, taught an autistic kid how to read.

671
00:22:36.280 --> 00:22:40.280
He couldn't stay still reading for more than one word at a time,

672
00:22:40.280 --> 00:22:42.280
and then he would like have fits or whatever.

673
00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:46.280
And so he came to train the child on how to read with a bag of skittles.

674
00:22:46.280 --> 00:22:50.280
And so when the kid would read a word, he would give them a skittle.

675
00:22:50.280 --> 00:22:53.280
When he would read more words in a row than he ever had,

676
00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:56.280
like a record, he would give them two skittles.

677
00:22:56.280 --> 00:22:59.280
So he rewarded the behavior and then he had big bonus rewards

678
00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:01.280
when he would unlock a new level.

679
00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:02.280
And so he kept doing that.

680
00:23:02.280 --> 00:23:04.280
And within one afternoon, he had him reading a full page.

681
00:23:04.280 --> 00:23:06.280
What is the behavior that I want to reward?

682
00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:07.280
How can I reward more of it?

683
00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:09.280
Now, none of it was punishing.

684
00:23:09.280 --> 00:23:10.280
He didn't smack him when he messed up.

685
00:23:10.280 --> 00:23:13.280
When he read less, he still gave him one to reward him for the activity.

686
00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:16.280
And then when he read more, he'd give him extra reward.

687
00:23:16.280 --> 00:23:19.280
As the kid becomes less full on skittles and he's like, you know, sugar,

688
00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:22.280
he doesn't want any skills anymore, the skills become a proxy for approval.

689
00:23:22.280 --> 00:23:23.280
And they work just the same.

690
00:23:23.280 --> 00:23:28.280
How do you know that went to when to punish, went to reward or went to extinguish?

691
00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:33.280
We try very hard to almost exclusively reward.

692
00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:36.280
Because punishment changes behavior faster.

693
00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:38.280
Reward changes behavior longer.

694
00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:40.280
It just takes longer to work.

695
00:23:40.280 --> 00:23:41.280
Right?

696
00:23:41.280 --> 00:23:44.280
Like if someone, you know, calls me Alex and I don't like that.

697
00:23:44.280 --> 00:23:46.280
And I slap them and I say never call me that again.

698
00:23:46.280 --> 00:23:48.280
I might change their behavior really quickly.

699
00:23:48.280 --> 00:23:51.280
If I leave the room and someone else says walks in,

700
00:23:51.280 --> 00:23:55.280
they might say I was talking to Alex because I'm not there to punish them.

701
00:23:55.280 --> 00:23:59.280
And so punishment only works as long as the source of punishment is there.

702
00:23:59.280 --> 00:24:02.280
And the person doesn't get accustomed to the punishment.

703
00:24:02.280 --> 00:24:05.280
Because punishment itself becomes desensitized over time.

704
00:24:05.280 --> 00:24:08.280
And so to effectively punish someone, if you want to consistently punish,

705
00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:11.280
then you have to increase the intensity and variety of punishment over time.

706
00:24:11.280 --> 00:24:13.280
Because otherwise people get desensitized to it.

707
00:24:13.280 --> 00:24:16.280
If you're always mean and yell at all of your employees, eventually they stop caring.

708
00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:19.280
So you have to increase the level of your threats.

709
00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:20.280
Right?

710
00:24:20.280 --> 00:24:21.280
You then have to say I'm going to fire you.

711
00:24:21.280 --> 00:24:22.280
I'm going to kill you.

712
00:24:22.280 --> 00:24:23.280
Right?

713
00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:26.280
You have to make these threats increase because you create the intensity and the variety

714
00:24:26.280 --> 00:24:28.280
of how you claim to punish them.

715
00:24:28.280 --> 00:24:33.280
Reward, you can reward long enough that you can then extend the gaps between reward

716
00:24:33.280 --> 00:24:35.280
to eventually you don't need to reward anymore.

717
00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:38.280
And people will continue to do the activity because they have always done it.

718
00:24:38.280 --> 00:24:43.280
So it's the exact example with Dr. Keshe and the guy.

719
00:24:43.280 --> 00:24:44.280
Yeah.

720
00:24:44.280 --> 00:24:46.280
I would imagine if he was doing this over and over again, he proved the point

721
00:24:46.280 --> 00:24:48.280
that he's not like a full-time reading teacher.

722
00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:51.280
The concept is that he would read.

723
00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:55.280
And then maybe the next time he comes in, he gives him a schedule every other time he reads.

724
00:24:55.280 --> 00:24:58.280
And the next time I'm by every third time.

725
00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:01.280
And the next time I'd be only when he hits a new record.

726
00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:04.280
If I can get the kid to read long enough that he actually starts to like the story,

727
00:25:04.280 --> 00:25:07.280
then the story starts rewarding and of itself and then I can move away.

728
00:25:07.280 --> 00:25:09.280
And then the kid reads without me.

729
00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:12.280
And so fundamentally, that's what you try to do when you train any activities

730
00:25:12.280 --> 00:25:17.280
that most people who are experts at anything get rewarded from the activity itself.

731
00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:21.280
Because once you develop a level of mastery and the skill, you enjoy it because you're good at it.

732
00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:24.280
So we hope I hope we will meet again and maybe speak longer.

733
00:25:24.280 --> 00:25:25.280
Thank you very much.

734
00:25:25.280 --> 00:25:26.280
I appreciate you, Kristoff.

735
00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:27.280
Thank you so much.

736
00:25:27.280 --> 00:25:30.280
Thank you for inviting your community and hopefully your community got value from the event.

737
00:25:30.280 --> 00:25:37.280
And hopefully they use the books and grow the economy and hungry and all get way way better at whatever it is they're doing.

738
00:25:37.280 --> 00:25:43.280
You are incredibly committed to education and self improvement.

739
00:25:43.280 --> 00:25:47.280
How do you select what you will pursue for education?

740
00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:49.280
There's so many possible topics.

741
00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:55.280
So what process do you go through to select what you're going to be educating yourself on?

742
00:25:55.280 --> 00:25:59.280
And how do you also select potentially someone to educate you on that topic?

743
00:25:59.280 --> 00:26:02.280
We do everything off the theory of constraints that happens is not common,

744
00:26:02.280 --> 00:26:05.280
which is basically that a system will grow until it's constrained until it's limits.

745
00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:08.280
So it's kind of like the idea of the weakest link, right?

746
00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:15.280
So it's finding what the weakest link in the chain is or the constraint of the system is so that we can de-constraint it and then grow to the next natural constraint.

747
00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:22.280
It's a very simplistic look, but it's extremely effective because it just cuts down all the noise until like if I had to pick one thing that is the big limitation of this business, what would it be?

748
00:26:22.280 --> 00:26:28.280
And so then we just get laser laser focused on solving that one problem, solve that problem, and then we move on to the next constraint.

749
00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:32.280
And if we solve that problem and the business doesn't grow, then we pick the wrong constraint.

750
00:26:32.280 --> 00:26:38.280
And so sometimes the constraint is your ability to judge what the constraint is, which is why wisdom is one of the hardest things to earn, which comes from experience, right?

751
00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:40.280
Is that you're able to recognize patterns.

752
00:26:40.280 --> 00:26:47.280
And so for me, right now, to answer the other part of the question, I'm focused on learning about brand stuff right now.

753
00:26:47.280 --> 00:26:51.280
So brand is my big topic that I've been diving really deep on, brand and media.

754
00:26:51.280 --> 00:27:00.280
And I'll probably write a book on brand just from the findings that I have, because I don't think there's many good books on brand, because I could read you 20 different definitions of brand and branding.

755
00:27:00.280 --> 00:27:07.280
And they all sound like cockamani. And so coming up with an operationalized version of what that means so that it can actually be useful.

756
00:27:07.280 --> 00:27:18.280
And I try to learn the stuff so that I can use it. And then whatever I learn, I just, you know, pass it forward, because branding for me, despite being now, quote, known for this, or like an organic content guy.

757
00:27:18.280 --> 00:27:24.280
I've only been doing this two years, like this is brand new to me, like I, you know, I've way more experience on the paid outside. That's what I did the last decade.

758
00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:30.280
You know, people got to see a tiny taste of that when I was launching the book, but that's, that's the big thing is finding out what the constraint of the businesses.

759
00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:37.280
And if you need to chunk all the way up, it's, if you want to grow business, you have to sell more clients or make them worth more or decrease risk.

760
00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:41.280
Those are the, those are the things that are going to grow the value of a company.

761
00:27:41.280 --> 00:27:47.280
And so just simply asking the question, like, why do we not have 10 times more customers or why we're not making 10 times more money.

762
00:27:47.280 --> 00:27:51.280
And then figuring out what the answer to that question is oftentimes is the constraint.

763
00:27:51.280 --> 00:27:57.280
Just because you're saying, hey, I'm, I'm currently educating myself on, on branding and that's fresh for you.

764
00:27:57.280 --> 00:28:08.280
What would you say is like a major takeaway in terms of education for the topic of branding that you're just like, I wish I would have maybe known this when I started to try to learn about this two years ago.

765
00:28:08.280 --> 00:28:16.280
This is like a Pandora's box. If I start talking about it, it might be like 10 minutes. So I can, I can riff on it, but like Buckling the audience.

766
00:28:16.280 --> 00:28:21.280
So if we look at the origins of what a brand is, right, where do brands come from?

767
00:28:21.280 --> 00:28:25.280
Brand comes from your brand cattle, right? That was the original use of a brand.

768
00:28:25.280 --> 00:28:30.280
And so why would you brand cattle? Because you want to change the behavior of people who look at the cattle.

769
00:28:30.280 --> 00:28:35.280
So if you have a cattle that doesn't have a brand and the cattle that does, the people who are looking at it will behave differently.

770
00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:39.280
If the cow, the cow doesn't have a brand, I might take the cow for myself or I might kill it or I might eat it. I might do whatever.

771
00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:45.280
But if the cow has a brand on it and I know the guy, I might return the cow to him, right? So it changes what I do.

772
00:28:45.280 --> 00:28:52.280
All right, that's an important point. So the point of a brand is to change or elicit a desired behavior in the widest percentage of your target audience.

773
00:28:52.280 --> 00:29:02.280
All right. Now, how do you do that? You do that by making associations between something they don't know your brand in the beginning with something that they do know that is positive and rewarding.

774
00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:08.280
If that's what you want, right? And so the index, it's a four by four box of what brand really is.

775
00:29:08.280 --> 00:29:15.280
You have the, the, the direction. So you've got away from and towards and then you've got strength. So very high and very low.

776
00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:23.280
So, you know, if you have a really weak thing that's away from, it's like, I kind of don't like this thing, you know, slow Wi-Fi.

777
00:29:23.280 --> 00:29:32.280
You know, on the flip side, you might have a political party, which depending on the audience, might be super strong and away from or towards.

778
00:29:32.280 --> 00:29:38.280
Now Taylor Swift, for example, would be something that I would say has a very strong brand and towards. There's not a lot of people who really hate Taylor Swift.

779
00:29:38.280 --> 00:29:44.280
And a lot of people who really love Taylor Swift, right? So it's positive and it's strong, right?

780
00:29:44.280 --> 00:29:51.280
Somebody like Ray Romano, if you heard that, you know, they're like Tim Allen from the old sitcom days, might be someone who is positive, but weak.

781
00:29:51.280 --> 00:29:55.280
A lot of people know who he is. Am I going to show up to his event? Probably not.

782
00:29:55.280 --> 00:30:01.280
The idea is that in order to build a brand, we simply pair things that people know, things that they don't know.

783
00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:07.280
The things they don't know is our logo, our tagline, our company, with things that they do know and think are positive.

784
00:30:07.280 --> 00:30:14.280
If you were to think about the brand as a bouquet of flowers, it's like having many flowers in a bouquet.

785
00:30:14.280 --> 00:30:18.280
And so if I were to break the bouquet and spread all the flowers, there is no bouquet.

786
00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:26.280
But simply by gathering them together, by making associations, I create something new. And that bundle of associations is the brand.

787
00:30:26.280 --> 00:30:30.280
Now, if I were to break one of the flowers or make it rotten, it would affect the appearance of the entire brand.

788
00:30:30.280 --> 00:30:37.280
And so that's why if you make a single mistake, a Dylan Mulvaney move for Bud Light, you can affect the entire brand.

789
00:30:37.280 --> 00:30:44.280
If I get a DUI, or somebody you know gets, you know, accused of doing some sort of terrible heinous act, right?

790
00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:47.280
It affects the entire brand, our Kelly, bad brand now, right?

791
00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:52.280
Despite all of the positive, the one broken rose or the one rotten flower affects the entire bouquet.

792
00:30:52.280 --> 00:31:00.280
We have to be very deliberate about what associations we want to make with our own brand so that we can continue to positively associate ourselves.

793
00:31:00.280 --> 00:31:06.280
And the point of the brand is that we get a desired action or behavior from a specific audience.

794
00:31:06.280 --> 00:31:11.280
The idea of growing a brand a lot of times is that you sacrifice some audience for other audiences.

795
00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:15.280
So like when I was starting making content, I did it in my closet, right?

796
00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:20.280
And there were some hardcore people in the OG Mozy Media days that are like, I appreciate you.

797
00:31:20.280 --> 00:31:23.280
That were like, man, I missed the closet videos, right?

798
00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:29.280
Now, I might have lost some of those people when we started making a little bit more polished videos, etc. Some people, not all, right?

799
00:31:29.280 --> 00:31:33.280
I traded, I traded losing some audience to gain more.

800
00:31:33.280 --> 00:31:41.280
When you are making a brand move, you're basically always making a bet that you will gain more of your desired audience than you lose by making a change.

801
00:31:41.280 --> 00:31:49.280
And so you can approximate or slowly move a brand over time by making more associations in one direction and fewer associations in the other.

802
00:31:49.280 --> 00:31:51.280
And so that's how you can move a brand over time.

803
00:31:51.280 --> 00:31:53.280
Bud Light made a wrong bet.

804
00:31:53.280 --> 00:31:57.280
They thought, and maybe this is just a corporate group thing, right?

805
00:31:57.280 --> 00:32:02.280
That if they made an association to El Mavini, that they were going to get more people to buy their beer.

806
00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:05.280
That would, I mean, fundamentally, that's the only reason you would do it as a company, right?

807
00:32:05.280 --> 00:32:07.280
You believe that long to get more people to buy your beer.

808
00:32:07.280 --> 00:32:09.280
The problem was, that wasn't true.

809
00:32:09.280 --> 00:32:13.280
Now, the interesting thing is that there probably are people who were a big fan of that move.

810
00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:15.280
It's just that there were more people who weren't.

811
00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:16.280
They were far away.

812
00:32:16.280 --> 00:32:17.280
Right.

813
00:32:17.280 --> 00:32:19.280
There were more people who were not a fan of that move.

814
00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:21.280
And so that became an away from association.

815
00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:27.280
And so that is what I am trying to encapsulate and put together into how to brand.

816
00:32:27.280 --> 00:32:35.280
Because now that I feel like I understand it a little bit, I see it as in my opinion, you know, it's kind of like Neo in the Matrix.

817
00:32:35.280 --> 00:32:40.280
When he's talking to Morpheus and he says, so you're telling me that I can dodge bullets.

818
00:32:40.280 --> 00:32:43.280
Morpheus says, well, when you're ready, you won't have to.

819
00:32:43.280 --> 00:32:49.280
And so we learn all these tactics about sales and marketing and show up rates and CRO hacks and all this shit.

820
00:32:49.280 --> 00:32:54.280
But if you have a brand, if you see the Matrix, everyone shows up to your calls.

821
00:32:54.280 --> 00:32:56.280
No one has price objections.

822
00:32:56.280 --> 00:32:58.280
Everyone is excited and refers to their friends.

823
00:32:58.280 --> 00:33:01.280
It just takes longer to make associations.

824
00:33:01.280 --> 00:33:05.280
Because fundamentally all branding is is teaching.

825
00:33:05.280 --> 00:33:08.280
You were teaching someone to do something.

826
00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:11.280
You want them to behave a certain way and you have this red red card.

827
00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:13.280
And when you see red, it means stop.

828
00:33:13.280 --> 00:33:14.280
That's all we're doing.

829
00:33:14.280 --> 00:33:17.280
So green lights have strong associate strong brands.

830
00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:18.280
They're positive.

831
00:33:18.280 --> 00:33:19.280
Everyone loves green lights.

832
00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:20.280
Right.

833
00:33:20.280 --> 00:33:21.280
Like it's a simple thing.

834
00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:22.280
Just know and owns it.

835
00:33:22.280 --> 00:33:24.280
But green lights are a great positive association.

836
00:33:24.280 --> 00:33:25.280
It's a great brand.

837
00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:26.280
Right.

838
00:33:26.280 --> 00:33:29.280
And so that's that's the idea of what I'm what I'm kind of diving more into.

839
00:33:29.280 --> 00:33:31.280
And I see it as the ultimate sheet code for business.

840
00:33:31.280 --> 00:33:32.280
It just takes long time to do.

841
00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:33.280
And most people are patient.

842
00:33:33.280 --> 00:33:36.280
You're telling me I can dodge business problems.

843
00:33:36.280 --> 00:33:40.280
I'm telling you that once you have a brand, they become irrelevant.

844
00:33:40.280 --> 00:33:46.280
You talk about deleting problems as your favorite way of solving them.

845
00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:47.280
Yes.

846
00:33:47.280 --> 00:33:50.280
How do you decide what's the leadable versus what's not?

847
00:33:50.280 --> 00:33:55.280
Because I can imagine the person who really loves that strategy doing nothing

848
00:33:55.280 --> 00:33:56.280
and just deleting all problems.

849
00:33:56.280 --> 00:34:00.280
So how do you prioritize a problem worth solving versus a problem that is

850
00:34:00.280 --> 00:34:01.280
believable?

851
00:34:01.280 --> 00:34:03.280
Well, it's just percentage likelihood of impact.

852
00:34:03.280 --> 00:34:07.280
Chunking all the way up to like, will this cost me a number of sales,

853
00:34:07.280 --> 00:34:08.280
like sales velocity?

854
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:10.280
Will this decrease lifetime value of customers?

855
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.280
And will this increase or decrease the likelihood that this,

856
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.280
that whatever I'm doing right now continues to occur?

857
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.280
So we're trying to value a company.

858
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:17.280
Right.

859
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:18.280
We look at what's the sales velocity?

860
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.280
How many customers they sell?

861
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:20.280
What's the lifetime value of a customer?

862
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:24.280
Because then you can extrapolate what their run rate is going to be at scale.

863
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:25.280
At max unless we change something.

864
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:26.280
And then you divide that by risk.

865
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:29.280
Which is how likely is it that there's going to be an outside event that's going to

866
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:34.280
change this thing from continuing to occur, this box of making money.

867
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:37.280
How likely is that they will continue to grow or at least stay the same?

868
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:41.280
And so if I have a problem, I have to be able to track it back to one of those three

869
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:42.280
things.

870
00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.280
And if it doesn't really track one of those three things or there's another problem

871
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.280
that has a much higher likelihood impact in terms of it's higher likely.

872
00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:51.280
And it has a greater effect size than I'm going to prioritize that.

873
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:54.280
It's just that oftentimes if someone's like, man, I really think we should change the

874
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:55.280
colors on the site.

875
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.280
I would just say, like, what's the likelihood?

876
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:01.280
Like I have been notorious for having ugliest shit sites my entire career.

877
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:02.280
And you can make brandy make associations.

878
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.280
And I think there's there's an argument there.

879
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:08.280
But what's the likelihood that it's going to affect how many companies do a deal with us?

880
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:09.280
It hasn't up to this point.

881
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:10.280
And so is it a constraint of the business?

882
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:11.280
No.

883
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.280
Is it something that I could improve?

884
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:13.280
Absolutely.

885
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:14.280
There's also a hundred other things I could improve.

886
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:15.280
I could also send more emails from the company.

887
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:16.280
And I think it's going to be a great deal.

888
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:17.280
No.

889
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.280
Is it something that I could improve?

890
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:19.280
Absolutely.

891
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:20.280
There's also a hundred other things I could improve.

892
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.280
I could also send more emails, which I don't do.

893
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:24.280
Like there's lots of things I could do.

894
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:28.280
But what are the few things or the one thing that matters the most, which then ladders back up to?

895
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:29.280
What is the constraint of the business?

896
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:36.280
If I look at the highest price competitor in my market, and I won up them, and then they won up me potentially.

897
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:40.280
Like is there ever a point in which we just say, like, we're price premium enough?

898
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:42.280
Or do we always have to go for the top?

899
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.280
Like how do you make the determination of premium?

900
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.280
There's basically four positions in the market.

901
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:54.280
You have luxury, although at the top, which is technically a vebbling good, which means when I increase the price demand goes up.

902
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:58.280
And that's because there's an association with the price that makes it more valuable.

903
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:03.280
So the fact that everyone knows how expensive it is affects the value that I get that I get from it.

904
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.280
The fact that everyone knows the Rolex is a hundred grand, the one that I'm wearing, whatever.

905
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.280
Then I actually, it makes the Rolex more valuable.

906
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.280
So it becomes a virtuous cycle, which is why LVMH is one of the most valuable companies in the world.

907
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.280
Then you have premium, which is basically the above average.

908
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.280
So it's there you have to pair utility with the premium.

909
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:26.280
In luxury, the extra price tag is the value.

910
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:31.280
Whereas with premium, like BMW is premium. They're not luxury.

911
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.280
They're a little bit better at a lot of stuff, and so you pay a premium because it is a little bit.

912
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.280
They use better materials, it breaks less, whatever.

913
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:42.280
And so then you have your mid to your run of the mill, your commoditized space, which sucks.

914
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:46.280
And then you have your low cost leaders, which they make their entire business on.

915
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:50.280
How can I drive efficiencies in operations at all levels of the business?

916
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:54.280
So that I can be the lowest priced person in the marketplace.

917
00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:59.280
And still make a profit to route to your question of like, when is enough enough?

918
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.280
The key indicator for me.

919
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:05.280
And most of this, like the quote, higher ticket world, you're not luxury goods.

920
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.280
The fact that it's expensive is not the reason that people want to buy it, right?

921
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.280
It's so it's actually technically a premium.

922
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:15.280
I'm more extremely about the price to value discrepancy than anything else.

923
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:22.280
And a lot of people get into trouble because they raise the price so much that it is it's just an excess of the value they provide.

924
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:24.280
And so then they actually create a negative experience.

925
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:28.280
Like if Chipotle were $50, people would probably not like Chipotle.

926
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:33.280
Even though the product is really good, but at $50, I don't know.

927
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:39.280
The reasonable is so viral, you know, I mean, it's like the price to value discrepancy is so good that they tell their friends, right?

928
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:45.280
And so that's where this kind of marriage of how can I just short circuit people's brains from value perspective,

929
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:50.280
which is what I what I try to do with the books and the courses so that it becomes viral on its own.

930
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.280
And then my cost to a car customers is zero.

931
00:37:52.280 --> 00:38:02.280
And so then everything after that is just gravy or the four variables when you're using this as you've got the price, the value at the top, which is what they get, right?

932
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:04.280
The price is what they pay.

933
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:09.280
You've got your cost of goods to deliver and then you have your profit left over.

934
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:18.280
And so it's playing with those four variables so that you can maximize the the amount of absolute profit that the company makes.

935
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:27.280
Pricing high has become shorthand and where I think people get a lot of benefit from the offers book is that when you price higher, you automatically weed out shitty customers.

936
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:34.280
And I think many times that is the real reason that a lot of people's businesses grow from that price.

937
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:35.280
Now obviously there's more profit.

938
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:41.280
You have access things that you can that you can deliver on, but a lot of people don't actually take that excess money to create a better experience.

939
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:45.280
They do a gotcha and then they never get anything with that customer again.

940
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.280
And so that's the wrong way to use it.

941
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:57.280
But if I had to think like, okay, what are the reasons that, you know, a company might be successful that does charge premium is that they actually reinvest the premium price into a superior product.

942
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:09.280
And they are very clear about the avatar that they go after and what the quantitative requirements are that are black and white that they know from looking at their best customers, their top 20, top 5% of customers.

943
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:15.280
And then saying we're only going to cater to these customers in the future because the likely that we can give them a great outcome is higher.

944
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:24.280
And then that can create, you know, you can merit or earn the premium that you have because you have data that supports that if you are this type of person, we can get you this type of result.

945
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:28.280
What does the ideal experience with an accounting firm look like to you?

946
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:32.280
And I asked because one of the things that stuck with me.

947
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:38.280
As you said, you've never done your own books like you've always considered that something that was delegatable, important to delegate.

948
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:44.280
You've also referenced bringing, I believe, accountants in house kind of going back and forth between outsource and in house.

949
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:47.280
So what does that ideal relationship look like to you now?

950
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:54.280
And maybe what did that ideal relationship look like when you were going through your first, you know, seven figure and eight figure company?

951
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.280
A lot of professional services should look at Wi-Fi for inspiration.

952
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.280
You're like, what does that even mean?

953
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.280
You don't, you don't want to like clap when the Wi-Fi is working. You just notice when it doesn't.

954
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:08.280
And so you just want it to be in the background. You just want it to work.

955
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:15.280
Right. So a lot of companies are like that. Like there's a lot of services that people think they need to like over, you know, communicate stuff on.

956
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.280
Like I just want the financials to be accurate and want them to be timely. That's it.

957
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:23.280
And I want things broken down in a way that allows me to make business decisions.

958
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:34.280
And that's where like I think the top tier of accountants transform into fractional CFO and CFO kind of materials where they actually help you use this data to make informed decisions about the business.

959
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:40.280
Is there a way that I can translate what we do into how it would affect a business owners life?

960
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.280
So I'll tell you a little story because I think this might be really relevant. This will be really relevant for you guys.

961
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:55.280
Most nation real quick, if you are a business owner that has a big old business and wants to get to a much bigger business going to $50 $100

962
00:40:55.280 --> 00:41:07.280
plus we would love to talk to you. And if you like that, we'd like to hear more about it. Go to acquisition.com and you can plan anywhere on the page and talk to one of our team and see if we can help you get there.

963
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:14.280
So one of our portfolio companies has had a ton of growth three years. They went from one location to I think we're at 38 locations now, right.

964
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:22.280
All stuff funded off cash flow. All right. So really, really tremendous growth in three years. And it's compounding. So it's growing faster and faster.

965
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:28.280
And when we were at about 30 locations, we were stuck at 30 locations for like two quarters.

966
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:41.280
And so I got on the phone with the CEO and he was like, dude, I just I just feel like I don't know how many locations I can open based on cash flow and because they had net receivables were a little bit extended things like that.

967
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:47.280
I like shook the screen for sick as it was a call. I was like, I need you to freeze frame this feeling you have right now.

968
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:54.280
It's like, okay. I was like, think about this feeling you have. I was like, what you are feeling is finance as the constraint of your business.

969
00:41:54.280 --> 00:42:01.280
You do not have a finance function that is operationalized enough. Like you do not like you are undeveloped in the finance function of a bookkeeper who's not that good.

970
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:06.280
As soon as he like I could see it just clicked. I was like, that is the constraint of the business until we get the finance function in.

971
00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:11.280
You're going to just be operating blind. And then once you know we have this much cash flow.

972
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:19.280
We can open two locations a month or three locations a month. Then you can be more aggressive with everything else because you're confident that you're not bankrupting the company accidentally on your own.

973
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:27.280
If I were an accounting firm, I would try and pinpoint the problems and relate them to how is going to affect growth in the business.

974
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:32.280
Like how is the constraint so that you can talk in the language that a business owner is going to understand.

975
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:43.280
Like they just how many I'll bet you like I could see everyone's hands. How many people in your audience, all the business owners is go to the right, go to the bottom and say, so we made more money this month.

976
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:52.280
Great. And so I think adding that level of strategy of like by the way, I think this is a little fat compared to other companies that we're looking at.

977
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:57.280
This is a little bit under compared other companies we're looking at and this might be an area of opportunity.

978
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:03.280
Little things like that that actually add value to the business. If I were somebody who is in charge of account.

979
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:10.280
I'd like to get this answer in less than 60 seconds because I know we got to go and I want to be respectful of your times has been incredibly informative.

980
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:21.280
How much of a skill should you develop or how much to do educate yourself before hiring for it. So for example, like, do I need to be a sales manager before hiring?

981
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:37.280
For sale management? What you what you hit at is one of the hardest parts of business. You need to make an informed decision without context, which is why being an entrepreneur, you end up becoming a jack of all trades so that you can have enough context to make at least an informed decision.

982
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:50.280
And so I'm going to steal a playbook out of whoops wrong shoulder. There we go out of laylist book here and I'll give you my tactic on this, which is you want to interview for people who are sales managers and you don't want to hire anyone for a little bit, which sounds tough.

983
00:43:50.280 --> 00:44:08.280
But what you want to do is you basically want to interview for information. Now if you meet a gold star that's amazing, but you want to talk to people and if you know more about it than they do, they should be teaching you and once you talk to 10, 20 people, they're basically like expert interviews for what it should look like.

984
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:21.280
And so then you get a very good idea of what the role should look like after listening to people and you'll get an understanding of the level of nuance and I'll give you this one little tidbit that is super powerful when it comes to judging skill.

985
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:29.280
The quality and quantity of data that someone chooses to collect around their particular department is almost directly proportional to their skill.

986
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:38.280
And so for example, I have lots of marketers who are like, I'm in a mate, my product's amazing. And I say, cool, tell me your metrics are, I was like, what's time to value?

987
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:45.280
What are the key activation points? Like what's churn? Like just some of these metrics and they're like, we'll do our refund rates really low.

988
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:52.280
But I'm like, okay, I was like, well, what about the marketing side? They're like, well, CPMs are this. This is our click through rate. This is our, you know, this is our conversion on the page.

989
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:58.280
This is our percentage. The schedules are percentage to show. This is percentage open rate. This percentage click like they go through all this stuff and I'm like, right.

990
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:10.280
So I can see very clearly that you're a better marketer than you are a product. And so simply getting an idea of the quality and quantity of the data that someone collects around their department.

991
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:16.280
Like when we hired our director of people, it was the first time that I had someone actually tell me metrics I'd never heard of.

992
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:28.280
And I was like, she's the lady. She's the girl. My community loves you. And that's how we are here. And I literally got like 150 questions. I had to narrow it down to five or six. It was so hard.

993
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:36.280
You mentioned something in the 100 million offer that to hit your first 100k, you don't need a lot. You just need an offer to sell. And that's exactly what we did.

994
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:54.280
But right now we are hitting a bottleneck. And our biggest bottleneck is operations. And I want to know how exactly you got out of gym launch operation because we have a very similar business model for, I know service providers for what service providers mostly agencies and digital consultants with lead generation and sales.

995
00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:58.280
And we do it as one-on-one consulting and in a group coaching format.

996
00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:13.280
So coaching models in general tend to be very difficult to scale because the reason people come to use for expertise in order to get other people to provide that expertise, then you have to create lots of experts who then eventually walk off and start the business on your behalf and take your customers with them.

997
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:26.280
I think there's a couple of different approaches. So the first is that there's the law firm and the McKinsey kind of consulting model. There's a track to become a partner in the business. And then that's kind of the whole business structure. So there's a way to share in the profits.

998
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:34.280
They do make lots of money. But the owners of those end up having to loot themselves out. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You can make lots of money doing it. But that is that is a version of the model.

999
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:47.280
The other way is to productize the basically get narrower on the solution that you're providing and productize it to the greatest degree possible so that anyone could do it even if they have no knowledge of it in terms of like the implementation of the thing.

1000
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:57.280
That is more the direction that we went with Jim much because we had a very specific we don't even we didn't even work with all gyms just to show how narrow we were with it. We worked with only micro gym owners.

1001
00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:12.280
We have now expanded to health clubs as well. The five or six years that I was doing it before we sold we were only micro gyms. And so just to show like how incredibly narrow that was someone had to have at least 30 members assigned lease one employee and be running this type of model for them to be a customer.

1002
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:22.280
And then if they fit all those things we could generate a lot of revenue using our playbooks. I could have somebody who had no gym industry, no expertise whatsoever and still say send this email say these words.

1003
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:34.280
Here's 10 recordings of people doing this exact same thing. This is the expected value. And so that's like from the delivery perspective now operating the business overall comes from talent and being able to find people who are just a smarter smarter than you.

1004
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:45.280
And people say that but when you actually meet somebody who's smarter than you. And then they admire an aspect of what you've done so that they start to work for you. That's where you really start to have the magic happen.

1005
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:51.280
What are some of the things that agency owner should avoid doing if they ever wanted to scale any way to speed.

1006
00:47:51.280 --> 00:48:03.280
Okay, so what things should an agency owner avoid when they're trying to scale. Yeah, yeah, I mean the same things that any business owner would want to avoid when they're scaling agencies tend to fall into the you know they tend to fall into the bucket of trying to be everything to everyone.

1007
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:15.280
So maintaining the discipline to be very focused about the problem that you're solving and who you're solving it for. And I think that solves 90% of the problems from a strategic perspective for any small business owner including an agency.

1008
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:24.280
The second piece is that if you're in a service based business, the quality of your talent is going to be directly proportions of your growth because you're you're basically selling people fractionalized people.

1009
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:39.280
That's what service businesses are, right? You're selling some level of training that you're able to give and having more efficiency than an individual business owner would have like the classic, you know, small business owner lead gen agency that charges $2,000 a month.

1010
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:53.280
The idea is that if they were to hire somebody full time to run these ads, it would cost them $6,000 a month, but you have copy raiders designers and media buyers and page designers who all work a fraction of their time for this one business and they can get it more efficiently and you can still do that.

1011
00:48:53.280 --> 00:49:08.280
At good margins, right? Like that's fundamentally what services are. And so the quality of that talent and the culture that you have at the business to attract and keep that talent are the kind of the key or the crucial pieces of the success of the model.

1012
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:24.280
You mentioned something in the book where you mentioned the agency model where you hire an agency to learn the stuff and you internalize it. And then when you have stopped learning, you replace an agency, but meeting agency models, agency businesses, how to become irreplaceable in your perspective.

1013
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:30.280
How should one go there should we start with one business then upsell the next and upsell the next and upsell the next offer.

1014
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:38.280
Creating the year's adjustable offer isn't necessarily about having a zillion products. It's more about explaining and communicating the many small things that you have to do anyways.

1015
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:52.280
And so rather than saying like I'm going to generate leads for you, that's like one outcome, but there's many things that have to happen along the way. You have to create landing pages, you have to write copy, you have to you have to follow up sequences, you have to work the leads, you have to have scheduling, you have to, you know, you have to split test, you have to make new creative.

1016
00:49:52.280 --> 00:50:02.280
Like there's lots of things that have to happen in order to just get the single result. And it's just making sure that we're delineating those things because an unbeknownst or an ignorant business owner, I say ignorant in the technical sense, like they just don't know.

1017
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:21.280
Would have no idea what you're doing. You're like, yeah, just go get me leads. It's like, well, it's much easier said than done. And if I was doing it from an outbound perspective, I'd be like, well, I have to warm up domains. I have to, you know, spin up different accounts. I have to split test different email openers. I have to split like you have to explain all the steps. And they're like, wow, there's a lot more work that goes into this. Now I can, I can appropriately value this price tag that you described to one of the services.

1018
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:35.280
So that's piece one. In order to be irreplaceable, oftentimes you'd have to go after significantly bigger customers. If you're an agency for Fortune 1000 for Fortune 500 companies, it'd be so costly for them to spin up at scale.

1019
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:45.280
The level of talent that's required to do like programmatic media buys across 100 different platforms in different countries. And then the likelihood that they want to leave or do this on their own is significantly lower.

1020
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:56.280
The idea that any service provider is going to become truly irreplaceable, like any business can do anything on their own. And I would prefer to put myself out of business and do it in a way that aligns my customers with me.

1021
00:50:56.280 --> 00:51:01.280
Then have a model that I know is is basically has a timer for obsolescence.

1022
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:17.280
Not everybody works. It's Fortune 500 companies, right? So many people, they might work with, you know, a small and medium businesses. They help them. Let's say you become a marketing agency for chiropractors. And you look, you become so good at that. In general, people won't leave you because they're just good at that particular service.

1023
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:30.280
And the thing is the small business owners are really tough because they're the problem, like they're super erratic. They're super volatile. They're cash flows lumpy. They don't know where their next paycheck is going to come from. And to no fault of your own, they can cancel because they just can't make payroll that month.

1024
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:46.280
Look at the biggest agencies that exist. Ogle V, you have Vayner. He knows up there now. Who do they service? Massive companies. Why? Because the quality of the customers are higher. And so they know that when they sign a contract, they actually stick with the contract. We all know that if you have a small business owner who signs a 12 month agreement for agency services, he's good for three months.

1025
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:54.280
The biggest model that I've seen for small business owners from a marketing perspective was an agency that was running $300 a month.

1026
00:51:54.280 --> 00:52:04.280
What? $300 a month price point because they had figured out, and like there's a key here, is that like those business owners are so price sensitive. It's not whether you can sell them. It's whether you can keep them on their worst month.

1027
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:10.280
The price isn't based on the value that you can deliver on the best month, but how much you can keep on the worst month because that's where the turn comes in.

1028
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:27.280
The best model that I saw was doing SEO for small business owners. And they had completely automated every aspect of it. It was basically just a playbook. And I think it generated reviews and maybe a couple phone calls a month, but at a $300 a month price point, if they got one or two phone calls a month, it was worth it.

1029
00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:37.280
So the bar to get over to to a scribe value and especially on something that I call like a nuisance business, where it's like, I know I should be maintaining my reputation. I know I should be doing some of this stuff.

1030
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:42.280
Okay, for two or $300 a month, I don't feel guilty about not doing it because this is being handled.

1031
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:51.280
We are in a consulting model, right? What happens is some clients actually do the work and they get results and some clients, they need a lot of follow ups and they need a lot of accountability from you.

1032
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:55.280
How do you maintain that? I know I'm getting very nitty gritty into this.

1033
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:08.280
I'm good with nitty gritty. You talk to basically one of the core problems of all B2B businesses, which is that you end up taking over the person's entire business until eventually they're like, yeah, if you could just send me a check every month and you do you run the business, that would be awesome.

1034
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:15.280
That's why being very disciplined about problem definition from the services that you provide number one. And here's the one that everyone messes up, who you pick.

1035
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.280
Even if you work with chiropractors, as that example, you don't necessarily even want to work with all chiropractors.

1036
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:25.280
You look at the customers that you have right now that are the best customers, like the top 20% of the top 10%.

1037
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:30.280
You say, okay, what characteristics do these people have that other people don't have in my client list?

1038
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:42.280
And that's both from the hard perspective, one of the quantitative differences, they have a certain size business, they're over a certain amount of month, they have a number of locations, they have a certain amount of employees, a number of customers, you just get all that data on them.

1039
00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:48.280
And then also, what was the experience that they went through when working with me and was it different than some of my other customers?

1040
00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:58.280
Because one of the things that happens oftentimes is that the first few customers you get become really sticky, and then you start scaling, and then you have this front revolving door, but you still have your core business of these people that you had in the beginning.

1041
00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:08.280
So why is that? Because these people got more help from you and actually got delivered more value, and then you basically tried to scale without scaling the value that you delivered to the original customers.

1042
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:20.280
And so if you're at whatever, 15,000 a month, and you've got five customers, and they're all having a great experience, and you keep signing people on, they keep leaving, it's like, okay, well, instead of me trying to sell five this month, why don't I just sell one and do a great job and then not lose them?

1043
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:30.280
And like that's the key to compounding in a service business, once you pay down the, pay down the inefficiencies of them, not knowing what to do yet, and being very specific about who you serve and who you don't.

1044
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:40.280
We didn't work with personal trainers, cycling studios, and like yoga studios, 100% could use our model. We didn't work with them because the founders tended to be psychologically different.

1045
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:51.280
Their adherence was super low because they just come from a totally different worldview than the guys who were more fitness, weight loss, transformation focused, even though at the end of the day, it's just a membership with a backroom where people work out.

1046
00:54:51.280 --> 00:55:01.280
But mindset wise, they had a very hard time, kind of adopting a different model, even though monetarily, it totally made sense, which means you need to have discipline to say no.

1047
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:08.280
It's so hard to say no to this new upcoming business because you know they can help them, but they just don't fit your criteria.

1048
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:13.280
I have 13 companies, I get 1,800 a day, who reach out?

1049
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:16.280
Right. So you have to say no.

1050
00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:19.280
It feels weird to like say no because a lot of them I get.

1051
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.280
That's why most people stay poor.

1052
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:28.280
You can't say no. And what happens is you go for the short term money and you sacrifice the long term money because then you just get in this operational rat race.

1053
00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:33.280
And then you scale up your costs to meet the fact that you took on all these customers that you shouldn't have taken on to begin with.

1054
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:37.280
And then you have to pay them every single month. And then you have to keep on taking on customers that you shouldn't have taken on to begin with.

1055
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:43.280
And you get in this vicious cycle that you can't get out until you downsize, you take two steps back, five steps back, fix your ego.

1056
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:48.280
And then say I'm only working with these customers because I think I know that these are the ones that I have the highest likelihood of success with.

1057
00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:57.280
I have mediocre success. And I can say it's their fault. I can say it's my fault. It doesn't really matter. All that I know is that the likelihood that they achieve what I think they should achieve is low periods.

1058
00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:01.280
I'm not going to sell them. I go for that. The amulet will smaller like course.

1059
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:08.280
You can build a niche and inch wide and a mile deep. There's 30 million small businesses. You don't need to service them.

1060
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:15.280
Like there's there's 50,000 gyms that fit the model that we have. Now if you want to build a $10 billion company, then yeah, you're going to have to go after a bigger problem.

1061
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:19.280
But if you want to build a nine figure company, you can do that in almost any industry.

1062
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:26.280
So you mentioned that when you started out, you started with the first five customer framework that was awesome. And then you just grew with referrals.

1063
00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:35.280
So this question came from a fitness consultant herself. And she said that with the competition that the fitness market is, how do you stand out?

1064
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:42.280
So she's just being authentic 99% of the fitness market just looks at what other influencers are doing and say, I'll just copy that and I'll do stuff like that.

1065
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:45.280
But then you just do a worse version of what somebody's already doing.

1066
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:52.280
Zooming all the way out fitness like there's no secret work out more stop eating shitty. You'll look better over a longer time horizon. Like that's what it is.

1067
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:59.280
Right. There's going to be a subset of an audience that is like you genuinely. And they want to get there. They could get fitness information from Alex.

1068
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:09.280
But if I'm a 45 year old Indian mother, I'm probably not going to be her source for fitness information, even if I say the identical stuff as another 45 year old Indian mother.

1069
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:13.280
Now, if that 45 year old Indian mother looks at my fitness content and tries to make content like mine, it's going to seem weird.

1070
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:25.280
You can stick out by actually being yourself. I know it sounds right. But the real like this is real. There are so many unique aspects of someone's life and the things they're interested in compared to other people.

1071
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:31.280
That if you just lean into those differences, those those unique things that you're actually into that are weird, right.

1072
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:37.280
Rogan's into aliens and mushrooms and comedy and fighting. Who would have told him like you should be Joe Rogan.

1073
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:46.280
And you're going to have people who like some aspects and then the super fans will be people who overlap on two or three of the interests that you have.

1074
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:53.280
If you picked my brand to be like dessert, working out philosophy, business, marketing, sales, they're different.

1075
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:57.280
They're people who follow me because they only like the business money stuff. They're people following me because they only like the philosophy stuff.

1076
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:01.280
They're people following me because they just think that desserts and calves stuff is funny.

1077
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:06.280
Like it just depends on what someone's going to come in for. But if you're just you, then you can stick with it for the long term.

1078
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:13.280
And that's what's going to build over time and make you quote stand out because there is only one version of you that's lived your life. So just live it publicly.

1079
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:20.280
Thanks a lot, man. I think we had the end of our tenure. Thank you very much for being here and keep writing great books.

1080
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:27.280
I hope I hope you make so much money from the book and just and crush it because at the end of the day, there's more problems than anyone person can solve it.

1081
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:32.280
I hope we build businesses to solve them. So explain to me how the franchise works.

1082
00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:37.280
Yeah. So we have a lot of clients that want to work with us and we have a lot of closures that want to work with us.

1083
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:46.280
And y'all and I would just can't manage everything ourselves. It's just too many people. We had two options. Option number one is place managers to replace us, right?

1084
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:52.280
And then give like two to three accounts, client accounts to each manager so they can manage and obviously we can scale that way.

1085
00:58:52.280 --> 00:59:00.280
The problem with that was that managers only get paid so much and they only care so much about the business itself, right?

1086
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:06.280
But when it comes to partners, they get 50% cut. They get exactly what we are getting 50 50.

1087
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:17.280
The franchise thing is interesting because I feel like you would be able to achieve that simply with a profit share rather than getting investment and equity and all like the because if speed is the goal, then you could basically do the makeshift in terms of because they're

1088
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:24.280
I'm assuming many of them aren't planning on selling, right? And so the only reason the equity would be valuable is if they're going to sell it sometime in the future.

1089
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:30.280
And buying, quote, more locations isn't really a thing either. I would imagine that just like it'd be a lot faster just contract.

1090
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:37.280
You know, basically put legal language around getting a profit share in the structure, you know, the cut that you have like many companies have scaled sales orgs.

1091
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:44.280
You know, I mean like insurance brokerages are just massive sales orgs like real estate agents are massive sales orgs. And so they don't necessarily have equity.

1092
00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:51.280
You don't need equity deals because those can just get litigious and there's lawyers and just take I'm sure you guys have already seen this like it just takes more time.

1093
00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:59.280
And I feel like there might be like you could probably remove a couple of components to get the same behavior, which is ultimately what you're trying to do is get people who act like owners.

1094
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.280
So that's just that's me just shooting right off the cuff of just looking at it.

1095
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:12.280
So that's kind of why we kind of came up with the franchise model to put like a nice barrier there. So it's for people who like have the experience in the space of running an agency or like scaling, managing how to get sales teams.

1096
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:16.280
But now you're getting like the infrastructure that we kind of built over the past four years.

1097
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:21.280
I mean, you can still do all that without the without the franchise agreement, but what problem are you solving? Why are you not bigger?

1098
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:28.280
It's a management problem just in general, we're bringing on more partners and doing it faster and doing it more in a more organized way.

1099
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:39.280
So what you said, it does make sense because that will remove some friction and it would allow us to bring more people without risking, you know, the equity in any way.

1100
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:49.280
I mean, based on the model you have, you guys can own 100% of the, you know, like the franchise or, but even if you if it was just like, you know, the main co, you can still have stream because you have the software.

1101
01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:54.280
So tracking becomes the issue, but since you already have that infrastructure bill, the ability to just make sure that they get overrides.

1102
01:00:54.280 --> 01:01:01.280
Now, if you want to put, you know, a $10,000 buy in or something, just because you feel like that increases commitment levels, I mean, that's fine.

1103
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:06.280
But if you look at like a Chick-fil-A, for example, if you're familiar with their model, yeah, right.

1104
01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:14.280
And so that, you know, each location probably costs, I actually don't know the build cost, but I would imagine it costs at least a million, probably one and a half to build a location for Chick-fil-A.

1105
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:16.280
And the operators put $10,000 in.

1106
01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:23.280
And so it's more of a symbolic gesture than it is like them actually, you know, contributing capital to whatever the thing is, but they actually don't own equity in the business.

1107
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:30.280
So they get a 50-50 profit share after a royalty that goes to hold, just looking at what they've been able to build.

1108
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:37.280
It seems that that structure works without the equity in terms of eliciting the behavior that you guys are going for.

1109
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:43.280
But from everything that you said, even right at the beginning, you were like, well, we needed something that was more scalable because obviously lots of people.

1110
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:48.280
There's many people who have scaled businesses with lots of people. And so it sounds like it's actually a talent deficit.

1111
01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:55.280
Like you need to hire somebody or bring someone who's a high-level operator who has scaled a sales driven org. What's revenue right now?

1112
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:57.280
A revenue for the phone sales organization?

1113
01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:01.280
Or, well, everyone is different around like four million right now.

1114
01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:07.280
Per month is that GMV. So like gross, gross sales volume. And then you're getting whatever 20, 25% on that.

1115
01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:14.280
Yeah. So you'd be looking at somebody who's scaled a sales or work from, you know, 10,000, 200,000. And who's really opt heavy.

1116
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:19.280
So you want somebody who looks like who's very, very leadership driven, not a systems person.

1117
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:24.280
That's not the right person. You're looking for somebody who's who you admire. Take this away. I mean, you need an adult, right?

1118
01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:29.280
It doesn't, that's that a function of age. Just saying you need someone who has experience doing this.

1119
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:35.280
Because if I were looking at like if I were going to go buy in right set of phone sales, the first thing I would do is hire an operator.

1120
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:43.280
Because right now all the things that you've described have been people issues. So if I'm operating on the theory of constraint, which is what we do, I'd say, okay, well then people issues seem to be the main problem for this business.

1121
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:50.280
So I'm going to hire somebody who has experience in this particular domain in a sales or who has gone from X to Z million dollar question.

1122
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:56.280
Where do you find such people? Well, you guys are sales guys, right? So it's outbound. Outbound is the easiest thing to do.

1123
01:02:56.280 --> 01:03:03.280
You could also run ads, but the best people already have jobs. And I mean, you guys know this from from your business, right?

1124
01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:08.280
And so it would be it would be outreach. Outreach is the easiest thing to do.

1125
01:03:08.280 --> 01:03:15.280
Go to LinkedIn and LinkedIn has so many tools now, like search for people who meet these, you know, these three or four job titles.

1126
01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:26.280
Probably like a senior vice president or a VP of sales sales director might be a little too low, but probably a VP of sales or VP of sales ops, something like that.

1127
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:33.280
Like you'll have to play with the title. It is kind of like an ad in advertising, like you have to play to figure out when you get the right avatars on the phone.

1128
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:38.280
But as soon as you get to click, then you're like, okay, these are the types of people I want. And then you talk to as many as you can.

1129
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:43.280
And the limit test that I have for high level talent is that I should be learning from them on the phone call.

1130
01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:51.280
So if I feel like I have to teach them stuff, they're not the right person. Like if they're teaching me things, which is also great because then you can keep taking notes and after 20 or 30 phone calls.

1131
01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:59.280
You're like, okay, I have a very good idea of what excellent looks like. And I can make a more educated decision on the type of person that I want.

1132
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:05.280
But that person who's very operational should be a people driven leader, especially in this type of work.

1133
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:14.280
For the second part of this call, we would like to just bring more partners to and just ask themselves question in general and learn from you.

1134
01:04:14.280 --> 01:04:24.280
You know, with our model, do you believe that we should utilize group selling methods like webinars, seminars, events that way we can compress the timeframe, we make money or just focus on one to one sales.

1135
01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:27.280
I think it depends on the product is being saved.

1136
01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:33.280
Usually products above $30,000. And that's why we were focusing on like one to one model right now.

1137
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:42.280
I think you can do so the way that I like building sales or is having repeated sales materials and then individualized. So like repeated sales materials are going to be like the VSL, the webinars, things like that.

1138
01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:53.280
But you're not you're not closing on those webinars. You're just qualifying and setting. And so I want sales guys to be doing as little information spewing as humanly possible and really being able to start the call with so you're ready to buy.

1139
01:04:53.280 --> 01:05:03.280
And then yes or no and then work your way. So you have 60 minutes to close rather than, okay, great. Now like discovery. Like let me talk to you about how we might be able to help you.

1140
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:10.280
Because if you because then sales guys get really tired of saying the exact same pitch, then they sound like robots, then they get zoned out because they're saying something they're not listening.

1141
01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:24.280
And so the talk ratios get way off. And so I prefer having as much of the standardized information sharing being done before the call so that the closures time can be maximized to closing rather than just like teaching.

1142
01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:31.280
But I wouldn't be trying to pitch 30k stuff directly to a payment page. I probably be pitching that to you know qualifier set calls.

1143
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:38.280
But that's how we're we're doing it right now. But we've seen some other people they have like live webinars, you know, and they have the sales guys on the line.

1144
01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:46.280
And even though they're selling super high ticket offers, they tried to like do that communication slash information stage of the call.

1145
01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:50.280
Like just through the chat and then once they show level of interest, then they get them on the call.

1146
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:57.280
Well, they're using the webinar as the set. Correct. At the end of the day, there's a certain amount of information that someone needs to have or certain amount of like exposure.

1147
01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:04.280
That they have to have to a brand or a product for them to make a buying decision. And so that can be a long set and then short clothes.

1148
01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:09.280
It can be a set webinar clothes. It can be a long webinar. Then a close like there's just a certain amount of selling.

1149
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:18.280
You know, the runway for the plane has to be a certain length. Doesn't really matter where you slice it. It just has like this is amount that the majority of people need to have before making a purchasing decision.

1150
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:23.280
Now some people might need less and that's okay because they probably got it beforehand from other things that they've consumed.

1151
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:29.280
So if you want to say, okay, how do I sell? Well, I want to increase the likelihood that some that the highest percentage of people buy.

1152
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:36.280
Then I want to create an experience that the highest percentage people get all of the information that they need prior to the closing conversation.

1153
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:44.280
And so if you do a webinar as a big set thing, I mean, to me, that's the same. I mean, that's all the same. Like if you run ads to webinar ads to VSL, then they go to a scheduler.

1154
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:56.280
Or you know, if you have a live call team where you have a number that becomes the CTA and then the call teams answering calls in real time operationally, I wouldn't I wouldn't up in my entire business because of just a slightly different way of doing it because I think it's more happy to glad.

1155
01:06:56.280 --> 01:07:02.280
As long as your throughput is good and you're like you're making money and you're growing right now, I would I don't know if that would be the constraint of the business.

1156
01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:10.280
So like I think this stuff that we're talking about earlier like that seems more of the constraint than kind of the individual tactics, you know, in the example you gave.

1157
01:07:10.280 --> 01:07:19.280
What's your method for building trust and credibility on a sales call in like the fastest way possible? Like what method, what approach do you often take for that?

1158
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:22.280
Well, I mean brand matters more than anything.

1159
01:07:22.280 --> 01:07:33.280
Like right off the bat and the vast majority of like the hard closing tactics and hard sales tactics have to exist in lieu of not having brand.

1160
01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:44.280
Right, it's like we have to make up all this hard stuff. It's kind of like in the matrix. It's like when you're good enough, you won't have to dodge bullets are like you're saying I can dodge bullets. It's like well when you're ready, you won't have to.

1161
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:53.280
So like the brand is when you're ready, you won't have to. But if you don't have that, which is the big thing that you should have, but if you don't have that, then it's the same things that you would normally do.

1162
01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:59.280
You're going to try and find common ground be relatable trying like a lot of it just comes down to how well do you understand the avatar.

1163
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:07.280
Right. So I think a lot of sales teams under under prepare by under understanding the avatar, the prospect and over educate on the product.

1164
01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:20.280
Like if I understand what a 45 year old woman suffering from, I can basically do the same sales call and at the end of the call, say I can pitch therapy, I could pitch, I could pitch weight loss, I could pitch a gym membership, I could pitch, you know, I could be cleaning services.

1165
01:08:20.280 --> 01:08:24.280
It doesn't really matter because if I understand the avatar really well, I'll be able to speak to her pains.

1166
01:08:24.280 --> 01:08:33.280
And what you said is true like brand is extremely powerful. And with the clients that we take on fire agency, do you recommend that we go for people of very strong brands and take that approach?

1167
01:08:33.280 --> 01:08:36.280
That's the way to be the focus by like always go for the brand and from there.

1168
01:08:36.280 --> 01:08:41.280
Yeah, strong brand, strong product for sure. Fair question though. Yeah, relatability, common ground.

1169
01:08:41.280 --> 01:08:45.280
What's been the number one reason you've seen show operates increase or decrease?

1170
01:08:45.280 --> 01:08:56.280
It's it's a hundred golden babies, no silver bullets. So when we when we go to a company, we have a something called lead nurture checklist. And so it's just like 17 things that we do and each one of them adds like 2 to 5%.

1171
01:08:56.280 --> 01:09:02.280
And so that's how we can get something from like 30, 40% sure it's 85% sure it's just doing a lot of little things.

1172
01:09:02.280 --> 01:09:11.280
So I would not look for like the one trick. It's just like, OK, how quickly are responding? How how much information do we provide them beforehand? Are we providing a personalized video?

1173
01:09:11.280 --> 01:09:18.280
Like, can we give them a gift card for showing up that they can share our coffee with us? Like just how many different things can we add in to increase the likelihood that they show?

1174
01:09:18.280 --> 01:09:23.280
Can we can we create an open loop between the set and the clothes that they're going to get information that they are they had got their interest.

1175
01:09:23.280 --> 01:09:31.280
They're their interest peeked is there a way that we can say that we're going to show them that we're going to do a certain amount of work on the behalf that we're going to give them the deliverable on the next call.

1176
01:09:31.280 --> 01:09:38.280
Right, so they have a huge incentive. They've huge curiosity so that they would want to show up like this is particularly true and insurance products. So like we have an insurance company.

1177
01:09:38.280 --> 01:09:42.280
And so like we create personalized insurance plans. It's like, OK, well, how do we get more people to shop?

1178
01:09:42.280 --> 01:09:47.280
But we don't want to send them the insurance plan that we're going to make them before the call. We just say we'll explain it to you on the call.

1179
01:09:47.280 --> 01:09:53.280
We implement a lot of those tactics as well. Probably there's some stuff that you're doing now. We currently don't have at the moment as well.

1180
01:09:53.280 --> 01:09:58.280
I don't know if it makes sense to share on this fall, but you said there's kind of like 17 things is a possible to maybe like send it to us.

1181
01:09:58.280 --> 01:10:00.280
No. So.

1182
01:10:00.280 --> 01:10:02.280
Oh, no.

1183
01:10:02.280 --> 01:10:05.280
All right, honestly, it really depends on what the business is.

1184
01:10:05.280 --> 01:10:10.280
If we're looking at an insurance business versus weight loss business, like it's more applying a principle across.

1185
01:10:10.280 --> 01:10:20.280
That being said, the big one that's that's probably missing, like it's usually the big obvious thing, which is we can always do the hundreds of little tactics, but you're trying to dodge bullets.

1186
01:10:20.280 --> 01:10:31.280
Rather than like winning before you start, which is like, why why do so few people trust you? Like that's the big that's the big like I see the matrix and then everything else becomes irrelevant.

1187
01:10:31.280 --> 01:10:38.280
That was just not calm. Our show rate on calls is nearly 100%. So if we call so if we say, hey, we'd like to find out more about your business.

1188
01:10:38.280 --> 01:10:46.280
Today is Tuesday. Our next opening is Thursday of next week. So nine days from now, show rates still 100% because of brand.

1189
01:10:46.280 --> 01:10:52.280
We actually don't need to do any of those tactics. Now we have those tactics so that we can help the bread, the companies that don't have those level of brands.

1190
01:10:52.280 --> 01:10:59.280
But like you want to stack the deck. You want to answer the question, why does no one trust me and solve that? Otherwise, you're always going to deal with these issues.

1191
01:10:59.280 --> 01:11:05.280
So just fundamentals for sure. But the big, the big things that don't matter most is who you're choosing is your customers.

1192
01:11:05.280 --> 01:11:11.280
So Vista, you guys heard of Vista private equity. So they're the biggest, they're the biggest software private equity. They've got a gazillion dollars, whatever.

1193
01:11:11.280 --> 01:11:19.280
The way that they look at a business is that they do a customer analysis. And so they look for the 80, 20. They look for the 20% of customers that are worth more than everyone else.

1194
01:11:19.280 --> 01:11:30.280
And they then do a customer analysis and say, what do these 20% have that the other 80% don't? And then they exclusively look for customers that are that 20% and then they say no to everyone else.

1195
01:11:30.280 --> 01:11:34.280
And so then what happens is if the sales velocity remains unchanged, they 5x the business.

1196
01:11:34.280 --> 01:11:39.280
So sometimes you'll make more money just by saying no so that you can have the capacity to say yes to the few guys that matter more.

1197
01:11:39.280 --> 01:11:50.280
And if you're not getting more of those people, then solving that problem rather than saying like, how do I keep getting, how do I, how do I polish a turd instead of going from that perspective, just saying like maybe I just should not try to polish turds because it's still a turd.

1198
01:11:50.280 --> 01:11:55.280
Right. And like, how do I get the people who are much better companies to be attracted to my business.

1199
01:11:55.280 --> 01:12:11.280
And if you have a customer list that people aspire to be like, then you'll get more and more people like that's where that's like kind of the branding side for you guys, which is how can I associate with better quality brands so that other better quality brands realize that what we do is legit.

1200
01:12:11.280 --> 01:12:18.280
You can try and optimize the shit out of something, but like usually it's the big obvious stuff and we don't look at the big obvious stuff because they're actually harder problems to solve and they take longer.

1201
01:12:18.280 --> 01:12:27.280
But it's where the most values unlock what's the ideal frequency and the topics of coaching calls that would increase the overall performance of setters and closures.

1202
01:12:27.280 --> 01:12:33.280
So I would say it's less about the topics of the calls and more about what you're training repeatedly and what you're rewarding.

1203
01:12:33.280 --> 01:12:41.280
So sales is one of those really interesting businesses or like departments that you can see very clearly like you guys are probably seeing different sales teams and they have very different cultures.

1204
01:12:41.280 --> 01:12:47.280
And so it would be like what are the cultures that create the highest performance in our experience, you know, you can go on all on either extreme.

1205
01:12:47.280 --> 01:12:57.280
You can have a very punishment driven culture, which is very individualistic or you can have a very team driven culture, which is typically reward based what you want to reward is adherence to the script, not closing.

1206
01:12:57.280 --> 01:12:59.280
Like that's a huge shift for most sales teams.

1207
01:12:59.280 --> 01:13:05.280
If you reward adherence to the script, then what happens is you get everyone to follow the script. Now if they aren't closing, then you need to change the script.

1208
01:13:05.280 --> 01:13:13.280
But it's much easier to change the script once you've taught adherence, then it is to have a bunch of lone wolfs who do anything they can to close the deal, which then impacts your brand.

1209
01:13:13.280 --> 01:13:23.280
So like a really simple, you know, tactic we did at one of our chains was we just said, cool, we'll give them five bucks if they follow the script, whether they close the now mind you the tickets are smaller, right? It's just higher, higher volume.

1210
01:13:23.280 --> 01:13:28.280
We give them five bucks if they follow the script, and if they close or they don't close, they get paid either way.

1211
01:13:28.280 --> 01:13:35.280
You know what's interesting, the thing they're most curious about when they send their managers is do I get the five bucks for the adherence even though they make three times more on the close.

1212
01:13:35.280 --> 01:13:44.280
So we still we still give them benefits for closing, but they want to know whether they got the approval of the manager because the $5 actually matters less than the approval from the manager saying you did a good job.

1213
01:13:44.280 --> 01:14:00.280
The $5 is more of a token, and if you can imagine because you everybody here is sold before, if you got on a call and you knew that you could get paid no matter what just for following the process, it takes some of the pressure off, like think about like you happen like I'm just going to make sure that I get my bone no matter what on on the adherence, but guess what happens when everybody

1214
01:14:00.280 --> 01:14:12.280
here's to the scripts you fucking close more because sales is one of the biggest issues we have false positives where someone goes rogue and then closes and basically gets reinforced for doing the wrong thing.

1215
01:14:12.280 --> 01:14:19.280
And then they start doing the thing that they did that one time that worked and then it doesn't work over and over again, so they changed the behavior they learn the wrong thing.

1216
01:14:20.280 --> 01:14:33.280
And so then you have to course correct, right? That's why sales like it's all about adherence and then we can be really strategic about really making sure the script is beautiful and crisp and concise, and we just and we just drill the team one adherence.

1217
01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:40.280
The big topic I want to do is how to sell emerging to you don't sell emerging tech you it's selling the plane flavors the vacation.

1218
01:14:40.280 --> 01:14:48.280
If I could tell you that your financials would be absolutely accurate and updated in real time, would you want that? How much would you be willing to pay compared to what you currently pay?

1219
01:14:48.280 --> 01:14:52.280
A lot more great. What if I said I could do it for less than what you're currently paying? Are you interested?

1220
01:14:52.280 --> 01:14:55.280
Great. This is what I need. The fact that I'm using AI is irrelevant.

1221
01:14:55.280 --> 01:14:58.280
You just sell the outcome and then you don't really just don't care.

1222
01:14:58.280 --> 01:15:02.280
AI is great for YouTube clickbait, but for for sales, it's irrelevant.

1223
01:15:02.280 --> 01:15:04.280
That was like one of the many of the get a cup.

1224
01:15:04.280 --> 01:15:06.280
What else you want to do for the next 16?

1225
01:15:06.280 --> 01:15:09.280
Well, you must be getting a ton of businesses.

1226
01:15:09.280 --> 01:15:13.280
Is she some a lot of AI businesses that are coming across your disc right now at a position.com?

1227
01:15:13.280 --> 01:15:18.280
What are the things it's making? They're sort of jumping out at you and what are the sort of commonality between things that make you really go?

1228
01:15:18.280 --> 01:15:20.280
Oh, well, that that seems to have some kind of staying power.

1229
01:15:20.280 --> 01:15:24.280
The best from drive AI businesses that I look like are dark shit.

1230
01:15:24.280 --> 01:15:28.280
And so they're either they're not real AI, which is 99% of them.

1231
01:15:28.280 --> 01:15:30.280
They're basically just build on chat.

1232
01:15:30.280 --> 01:15:34.280
Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm just like, let's not claim that we're creating AGI.

1233
01:15:34.280 --> 01:15:37.280
On the other hand, it's it's people who have no business acumen.

1234
01:15:37.280 --> 01:15:39.280
And so they're like, it's totally different.

1235
01:15:39.280 --> 01:15:42.280
Like the normal laws of business don't apply. It's like they have always applied.

1236
01:15:42.280 --> 01:15:45.280
And they will always apply because they're just how business works.

1237
01:15:45.280 --> 01:15:48.280
Right. There's the vast majority of people that I see in that.

1238
01:15:48.280 --> 01:15:54.280
I do think that AI implementation for mainstream is an enormous opportunity.

1239
01:15:54.280 --> 01:15:56.280
The AI are fine, if you will.

1240
01:15:56.280 --> 01:16:02.280
And I don't think I think your first conclusions right, which is being the custom guy is tough.

1241
01:16:02.280 --> 01:16:05.280
You know what I mean? It's just it's all things to all people, which is nothing to know on.

1242
01:16:05.280 --> 01:16:08.280
From talking to the audience now, if you guys want to get into this world,

1243
01:16:08.280 --> 01:16:13.280
what you want to do is look at an industry or an avatar that you understand well.

1244
01:16:13.280 --> 01:16:17.280
And so one of the things that like why a combinator and some of these great, like, you know,

1245
01:16:17.280 --> 01:16:22.280
imaginary investors look at is how much time a founder has suffered and lived through a problem.

1246
01:16:22.280 --> 01:16:25.280
I can talk about breathing because I've had two nose surgeries.

1247
01:16:25.280 --> 01:16:28.280
I've been falling asleep on my hands since I was in eighth grade so that I could breathe.

1248
01:16:28.280 --> 01:16:30.280
So like I've lived with the problem for a long time.

1249
01:16:30.280 --> 01:16:32.280
And I've tried many different types of solutions.

1250
01:16:32.280 --> 01:16:36.280
So I have tons of industry knowledge if I were to start a company like that.

1251
01:16:36.280 --> 01:16:40.280
If you have a job right now or have had any type of job, you've worked in a business.

1252
01:16:40.280 --> 01:16:43.280
That's a great baseline of background knowledge.

1253
01:16:43.280 --> 01:16:47.280
That's difficult to just jump like it, even if you were a server at a restaurant for two years,

1254
01:16:47.280 --> 01:16:52.280
you still will probably know more about restaurants than 99% of people who aren't in the restaurant industry.

1255
01:16:52.280 --> 01:16:55.280
Like I don't know anything about how restaurants work as I've just never really worked at one.

1256
01:16:55.280 --> 01:17:00.280
You could probably be aware of because you now also have this understanding of what AI can do to think,

1257
01:17:00.280 --> 01:17:02.280
okay, there's a hundred problems in a restaurant.

1258
01:17:02.280 --> 01:17:07.280
Is there one very specific problem that I can solve well and is very similar between restaurants?

1259
01:17:07.280 --> 01:17:12.280
Because as soon as you get the point eight point B, you can create the clear value prop and you can message around that.

1260
01:17:12.280 --> 01:17:16.280
Getting extremely specific, which is I think what you were saying that you give the advice to,

1261
01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:17.280
is super smart.

1262
01:17:17.280 --> 01:17:20.280
And it makes the problem set really narrow to solve.

1263
01:17:20.280 --> 01:17:23.280
So you can become an expert that's an inch wide and a mile deep.

1264
01:17:23.280 --> 01:17:25.280
But the exact same thing.

1265
01:17:25.280 --> 01:17:28.280
The reason that most people don't do that when they're starting out is because you don't have enough demand.

1266
01:17:28.280 --> 01:17:32.280
You have so few leads that come to you that you're like, well, I mean,

1267
01:17:32.280 --> 01:17:33.280
shit, I need to pay rent this month.

1268
01:17:33.280 --> 01:17:37.280
And I only got four leads this month and all four are completely different.

1269
01:17:37.280 --> 01:17:38.280
But I need the money.

1270
01:17:39.280 --> 01:17:43.280
And so I get it, redeploy that cash into getting really concentrated on your marketing,

1271
01:17:43.280 --> 01:17:45.280
which is what offers and leads is all about.

1272
01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:50.280
So that you can find that specific avatar that you can over and over again repeat,

1273
01:17:50.280 --> 01:17:53.280
which is also why referrals are so strong because if you do a good job,

1274
01:17:53.280 --> 01:17:55.280
they will send you other people just like them.

1275
01:17:55.280 --> 01:17:58.280
The question is, yes, I can pick a niche to do this AI automation.

1276
01:17:58.280 --> 01:18:01.280
I can build AI solutions and sort of targeted one.

1277
01:18:01.280 --> 01:18:03.280
But what is the opportunity that I should toggle within the niche?

1278
01:18:03.280 --> 01:18:06.280
And that comes down to either a as you said industry experience that you already have.

1279
01:18:07.280 --> 01:18:11.280
Or sort of be what we've said is finding some sort of partner within the industry.

1280
01:18:11.280 --> 01:18:14.280
So we say you can either try to pay them for the time as a consultant,

1281
01:18:14.280 --> 01:18:16.280
or you can just message enough people and say, hey, look,

1282
01:18:16.280 --> 01:18:19.280
I'm looking to bring these kind of solutions to the industry.

1283
01:18:19.280 --> 01:18:21.280
Would you be willing to work on working on this with me?

1284
01:18:21.280 --> 01:18:24.280
I need a little bit of your specific knowledge, but in exchange I'll create this thing

1285
01:18:24.280 --> 01:18:25.280
and you can refer it.

1286
01:18:25.280 --> 01:18:27.280
You can basically have first dibs on sharing it to your network

1287
01:18:27.280 --> 01:18:29.280
and you can make some money that way.

1288
01:18:29.280 --> 01:18:31.280
So yeah, I definitely wouldn't do it as a consulting relationship.

1289
01:18:31.280 --> 01:18:34.280
The thing that you're going to be selling is the product.

1290
01:18:34.280 --> 01:18:39.280
And so having a consultant who's the one who's in charge of the primary value that you're driving

1291
01:18:39.280 --> 01:18:41.280
is not a good idea.

1292
01:18:41.280 --> 01:18:45.280
And so you'd want somebody who's long-term incentivized to continually improve the product,

1293
01:18:45.280 --> 01:18:48.280
continue to innovate the product, see the things that are coming around the corner

1294
01:18:48.280 --> 01:18:51.280
to keep it up to date, make it better, make it stronger, et cetera.

1295
01:18:51.280 --> 01:18:54.280
It really just comes down to how to have a normal business partnership.

1296
01:18:54.280 --> 01:18:57.280
So all the normal rules of business apply, and this person has some specific knowledge

1297
01:18:57.280 --> 01:19:00.280
you don't have, and you should ideally have specific knowledge they don't have.

1298
01:19:00.280 --> 01:19:03.280
They should be asking the question like, why do I partner with the people in your community?

1299
01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:05.280
If I'm an AI developer, right?

1300
01:19:05.280 --> 01:19:08.280
If you're trying to figure out which of the problems to solve in an industry,

1301
01:19:08.280 --> 01:19:11.280
it's just value created times ease of implementation.

1302
01:19:11.280 --> 01:19:14.280
That's the equation, which if you chunk it up, it's number of potential customers,

1303
01:19:14.280 --> 01:19:16.280
times gross profit per customer.

1304
01:19:16.280 --> 01:19:20.280
If I have six different problems I could potentially solve, which one has way more people who have it,

1305
01:19:20.280 --> 01:19:23.280
which one's easier to do, which one unlocks the most value?

1306
01:19:23.280 --> 01:19:26.280
One thing that we're starting to see as us ourselves is actually trying to build one

1307
01:19:26.280 --> 01:19:29.280
of these AI automation agencies, now AI development companies,

1308
01:19:29.280 --> 01:19:32.280
is that by building a development team that is capable,

1309
01:19:32.280 --> 01:19:36.280
what is your take at your experience with how important that development resource is?

1310
01:19:36.280 --> 01:19:38.280
I mean, it's sure that your event, you must know,

1311
01:19:38.280 --> 01:19:41.280
working with developers can be a complete plan, but having them in-house

1312
01:19:41.280 --> 01:19:45.280
and having a really good team to rely on as you shoot for those big opportunities can be key.

1313
01:19:45.280 --> 01:19:47.280
What am I, what's your experience being like this,

1314
01:19:47.280 --> 01:19:52.280
and how important do you think that development resources when you're going for those bigger plays?

1315
01:19:52.280 --> 01:19:54.280
Very?

1316
01:19:54.280 --> 01:19:55.280
Okay.

1317
01:19:55.280 --> 01:19:58.280
I mean, we would think in the same things as glad to know you can.

1318
01:19:58.280 --> 01:20:00.280
It's the product, like if you're in a service business,

1319
01:20:00.280 --> 01:20:05.280
the quality of the people that you use to provide the service is the product.

1320
01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:09.280
And so those people usually want to be compensated well because if they are really good,

1321
01:20:09.280 --> 01:20:13.280
then the places that they're coming from will want to pay more to keep them.

1322
01:20:13.280 --> 01:20:18.280
And so you have to give them a great place to work and a financial incentive

1323
01:20:18.280 --> 01:20:21.280
or some upside that they get exposed to that they wouldn't otherwise.

1324
01:20:21.280 --> 01:20:23.280
Like you want them to feel like owners.

1325
01:20:23.280 --> 01:20:25.280
And the best way to do that is for them to actually be owners.

1326
01:20:25.280 --> 01:20:28.280
If you're trying to get on the cutting edge of technology,

1327
01:20:28.280 --> 01:20:32.280
then actually having the people who are good at that is the business.

1328
01:20:32.280 --> 01:20:35.280
Well, that is a great reason to have a really killer marketing team under your belt,

1329
01:20:35.280 --> 01:20:39.280
but the development side of things I tend to find at least an out experience

1330
01:20:39.280 --> 01:20:42.280
has been a hot thing for us to create and you don't know it.

1331
01:20:42.280 --> 01:20:44.280
Like it's easier for you to do the marketing stuff because you're good at it,

1332
01:20:44.280 --> 01:20:46.280
so you know if someone's full of shit on the interview.

1333
01:20:46.280 --> 01:20:49.280
You just don't know if anyone's full of shit on the interview because you have no context.

1334
01:20:49.280 --> 01:20:52.280
The most important hire, which is why I say this, is you need a technical co-founder.

1335
01:20:52.280 --> 01:20:57.280
You need somebody who has a real stake in making sure that the people are coming in are actually good.

1336
01:20:57.280 --> 01:21:00.280
Not that you're checking a box and saying, hey, I have 14 people in my development team.

1337
01:21:00.280 --> 01:21:03.280
Anybody in the in the true high tech world knows that one amazing developer

1338
01:21:03.280 --> 01:21:06.280
is more available than 100 B developers.

1339
01:21:06.280 --> 01:21:10.280
This is the hardest part of business is hiring people who are really good at something

1340
01:21:10.280 --> 01:21:12.280
without knowing the in-depth knowledge.

1341
01:21:12.280 --> 01:21:15.280
And that's where like leveraging somebody who might not want to work for you

1342
01:21:15.280 --> 01:21:21.280
that you do think is brilliant to at least interview or double check on how good they are is really valuable.

1343
01:21:21.280 --> 01:21:23.280
That's where like building a network becomes important.

1344
01:21:23.280 --> 01:21:30.280
And getting even some tests of aptitude for them to take so that you can at least get some sort of baseline.

1345
01:21:30.280 --> 01:21:36.280
But it's all going to be about how skilled that person is because ideally if they were as good as you are at marketing,

1346
01:21:36.280 --> 01:21:39.280
then you guys would probably have a really successful business.

1347
01:21:39.280 --> 01:21:43.280
We've been fortunate enough to find that, find that magical sort of technical co-founder.

1348
01:21:43.280 --> 01:21:47.280
So we're starting to get them really well compensated both getting it in APD as well.

1349
01:21:47.280 --> 01:21:49.280
So we are off the race and that's completely changed our business.

1350
01:21:49.280 --> 01:21:54.280
I can't even trust for anyone of you in here that that key hire is just a complete game.

1351
01:21:54.280 --> 01:21:58.280
I'm sure you've had it Alex in your business as we've just found that right person and just completely changed his thing.

1352
01:21:58.280 --> 01:21:59.280
All right, appreciate you guys.

1353
01:21:59.280 --> 01:22:00.280
Thank you and appreciate the community.

1354
01:22:00.280 --> 01:22:01.280
Thank you guys for showing up.

1355
01:22:01.280 --> 01:22:03.280
Hopefully the book serves you guys well.

1356
01:22:03.280 --> 01:22:09.280
So do you feel like in general that you think that you think you brought as much value as you promised?

1357
01:22:09.280 --> 01:22:10.280
I hope so.

1358
01:22:10.280 --> 01:22:14.280
I try to answer the questions to the best of my ability and provide value.

1359
01:22:14.280 --> 01:22:15.280
So.